Innovating Home Safety Products: A Conversation with HealthCraft CEO, John O'Brien

In this conversation, Janet has a conversation with John O'Brien, the CEO of Healthcraft, and Sandy Alexander, OT.  HealthCraft is a company that specializes in fall prevention products.

They discuss the story behind the SuperPole, the importance of fall prevention, and the innovative solutions Healthcraft has developed for bathroom safety.

They also talk about the evolution of Healthcraft products, blending functionality and aesthetics, and the Easy Mount installation solution.

The conversation highlights the SuperPole and its benefits for individuals with mobility issues. The conversation explores the installation process and universal design principles of accessible products.

It then delves into future market trends and the need for aesthetically pleasing solutions.

The benefits of seated surfaces for fall prevention are discussed, including wide and comfortable seating options.

The conversation highlights the importance of back support and energy conservation during bathing. It emphasizes the preventability of falls and the impact of hazards in the home.

The chapter concludes with the idea of making products look good to increase their appeal and adoption.

Takeaways

Accessible products can be installed by any homeowner, regardless of their handy skills.
Universal design principles focus on simplicity, intuitiveness, and low physical effort.

Future market trends in accessibility include a demand for aesthetically pleasing solutions.

Seated surfaces in showers provide a safer bathing experience and conserve energy.

Wide and comfortable seating options are essential for accessibility.

Back support is crucial for comfort and safety during bathing.

Falls are often preventable, and hazards in the home play a significant role.

Making products look good increases their appeal and adoption.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Overview
00:42 Introduction to Healthcraft
01:32 The Story Behind the SuperPole
04:07 The Importance of Fall Prevention
05:39 Innovative Solutions for Bathroom Safety
10:55 The Evolution of Healthcraft Products
18:05 Blending Functionality and Aesthetics
25:37 Innovative Solutions for Bathroom Storage
30:39 Easy Mount Installation Solution
39:07 The SuperPole and its Benefits
46:29 Installation and Universal Design
47:18 Future Market Trends
49:25 Design Solutions for Accessibility
50:23 Seated Surfaces for Fall Prevention
52:37 Benefits of Seated Surfaces
53:33 Wide and Comfortable Seating
54:25 Back Support and Energy Conservation
55:27 Preventing Falls and UTIs
56:25 Advantages of Wall-Mounted Benches
57:45 Simplifying Installation and Maintenance
58:43 Cost and Value of Seated Surfaces
59:33 The Impact of Falls and Preventability
01:02:17 Misunderstandings and Preventable Falls
01:04:21 Making Products Look Good

Watch Podcast Episode on You Tube

Transcript

Janet Engel (2): 0:45

Hello everyone. And thank you for being with me today. My guest is John O'Brien. He is the CEO and I'm very excited to have him here with me. John, thank you for joining me.

John O'Brien: 1:02

Thanks for inviting us to to your show, Janet. Really appreciate that. Yes. John, I know Healthcraft was founded in 1994 and they make safety products for residential and commercial. Can you tell us a little bit more about Healthcraft? Ah, sure thing, Janet. So Healthcraft is, we're a design and manufacture company based in Ottawa, Canada. We actually do make products here right in North America. We take great pride in the design of innovative products. Our, as a company, our niche is fall prevention. We we're, we consider ourselves what they call a purpose driven company. And that's what we do here. The company purpose I could summarize that in in three words. Although what I might do is if you wanted to hear a little bit of a story about the company, I could share that with you. I would

Janet Engel (2): 1:56

love to. I have heard that there is an entertaining story behind the Superbowl

John O'Brien: 2:03

product. There is that. We've got a, quite a few of them. The the Superbowl, I can get into that one. That is our flagship product. When we're talking about what led us to the Superbowl there is there's a, what kind of really put a point to our industry is a flight I took with down to a trade show in Las Vegas. And this was prior to the days of smartphones that everyone's looking at their smartphone. We'd pick up conversations with our seatmate. And the gentleman beside me, very polished, professional confident gentleman. And there he was. We were talking about various things why he was heading down to this, his conference. And I asked him what he did. He shared some things about his organization. And within 30 seconds, this polished very professional gentleman was in tears. And why was that? It was because I told him what we did, that we help prevent falls. We make equipment to help prevent falls. And he that just struck a chord because he had just gone through a very, a very frustrating experience with his mother who he loved dearly. And she he suspected that she might be at risk, but he didn't take action. He didn't know quite what to do. And then he felt so guilty that something happened. Then he didn't do something. And then he had to deal with making changes for mom coming home to, with an injury. And he just said it was the most frustrating thing he's ever had to do, to find the information he needed, what's possible. What will cost, can it be done at home? Who can I help, have help to do those changes, design them? What equipment do I need? All, you know the questions. And so it was just, it really drove home to me. This was, how it can just impact lives. The family, the person who's had the fall. So to get back to our company purpose fall prevention is what we do. Fall prevention simplified is our purpose. We want to simplify fall prevention with products, education, all those kinds of things. So that's health craft in a nutshell. Okay.

Janet Engel (2): 4:04

I love that. I don't know if you're aware that I teach the CAP certification for the National Association of Home Builders. And I always explain it in that way, that everything that we're learning about design. The foundation is fall prevention. That is the sole reason why we are talking about all of this, is to prevent

John O'Brien: 4:33

falls. I like that message. I love when I heard that course first came out. And that it gives something that, because there was so much hunger years ago when we first got into the building industry. We started with wheelchair stores, as and We came across into the building industry to help, and we just saw the hunger that there was to learn more because they were hearing it from their clients, and they want to offer that service and you're quite right there's a lot of things that we proactively think about as a society for when we get older but, and there are some things that we put off, of course, but it's just unfortunate that there's so much, stigma and soft issues related to fall prevention planning and you're right, it is, That's the number one reason to put people in a hospital. So I'm glad to see the emphasis that you're putting on fall prevention and what you're teaching.

Janet Engel (2): 5:20

Yes. So tell me about the Super Bowl

John O'Brien: 5:26

story. Ah, the Super Bowl. So that was one of our early products. And so Healthcraft. Has this interesting founding DNA. I'm one of three founding partners. And myself, I'm a mechanical design engineer. I bring that, I can look at physical materials and craft a design out of it. My other two partners, one is an occupational therapist, like yourself. And, a very residential modification of what can equipment do kind of occupational therapists. And then thirdly our senior partner owned a wheelchair store. So you take those experiences and specialties and make that a company DNA and it creates some wonderful I guess information to, to onto which to base a company and to course correct and learn now, having settled that my partner who has a wheelchair store has access to all the products, had an aging parent, his father who loved taking baths and he's, as he noticed that his dad was struggling in and out of that bathtub, he said, dad, why don't I put a grab bar for you? And he put the grab bar. Yeah. And on the sidewall of the bathtub, as we normally see, and checked in with his dad, not too long ago, not too long after that installation. And I asked him, how's it going? He said I'm not using it. I don't like it. And it wasn't the reason he thought his dad was an engineer as well. And he just said, I'm in the bathtub. If you can imagine in this orientation, just forward. And the bathtub the support is on the side and his dad just used his, engineering mind to say, that's not the best support. I want something that's in front of me. And so he actually in his bath, bathroom. And for your listeners who are just listening on audio here, you can see in my studio and in our health craft studio here, I've got a broomstick on the back wall here. And that's the broomstick that, he put across one side of the tub to the other. Better located support, light bulb went off. How, so then Don said, John, we have to solve this better than giving my dad a broomstick. So the question was, how do we take a broom, the equivalent of a broomstick handle and secure it so it doesn't move. That you can lean on it. And actually it's low at that height. Let's move it up a little bit. And so that was the essence of the start of an the, just the nebulous core of an idea to have a horizontal bar across a bathtub. And then how do we support that thing? And the ideas at the time, there were these things called floor to ceiling poles. And they looked quite, clunky, like a plumbing, piece of plumbing almost. And we thought maybe we'll add on to something on that to one of our exis one of the existing poles. We ended up creating our own pole, a floor to ceiling pole, onto which we mounted this horizontal bar. And and then, how do we get it fixed in place? It's in the way if it's fixed in place. So we came up with a, and patented years ago. A lift and unlock kind of motion for this bar. So it ended up being quite quite a breakthrough in our industry. Because grab bars are good, but sometimes they're not the best location, like not all transfers happen exactly where there's a wall nearby. So we generally have a floor and a ceiling and in our built environment. So by expansion fit, and we're not talking the spring load, a kind of thing that you have with those. shower bars that fall down. We are talking solid expansion fit about it and generates between three and six hundred pounds of force to hold that in place and good floor and ceiling interfaces onto which we mount that bar that is right in front. And then, you're standing in the bath pivot lock it. So it swings out and you're stepping out with the support and you've got the bar and pole. So that's this. Starting story behind the Superbowl is watching a broomstick over a bathtub.

Janet Engel (2): 9:24

That's amazing. And how much weight can the Super Bowl

John O'Brien: 9:30

hold? So we've got a few models, but our basic one holds a 300 pound user. So it's like the standard ADA guideline kind of rating to it.

Janet Engel (2): 9:40

Okay, great. Tell us how health craft products have evolved because I've been on your website, I know that your company makes beautiful products. That are aesthetically pleasing, completely blend into the environment. Specifically the Invisi Line and the Plus Line of products. How does Healthcraft blend functionality and aesthetics to enhance both home safety and particularly in the bathroom environment?

John O'Brien: 10:17

Yeah, that's a great question. So I, I'm, as an engineer, I'm always looking at what's the great question? What's the constraint? What's the underlying issue here? And, we found that one of our design principles is, get support better located, right? And another one of our design principles is, we started in this industry and it was, literally a few minutes before I heard that common phrase. That we hear from your clients. Yeah, I know I need it, but I don't want it. Type of things, right? And that's a shame. That safety is put aside because of an aesthetic reason, a pride reason, a belief system, whatever. In, in the terms of your, to your question about the bathroom, we we make standard grab bars. We make them in a lot of different sizes and finishes. We do that, we have different colors that we can finish them right here on, on site. But. I wanted to solve that in a more wholesome way and that is to solve the acceptance challenge so we looked at How could we get grab bars accepted to make them and the question the answer to that is we have to make them not Look like grab bars, but yet function like grab bars, right? and so we looked at that and we said what would be accepted if not a grab bar and we looked at the walls of bathrooms And, at that same time, I'm so ashamed this thing was right under my nose all the time. And, that is, my partner who is an occupational therapist, I would listen to him talk about the stories, maybe you have a few yourself, about, let's call her Mrs. Smith, who doesn't want the grab bar because, check the box it'll ruin my nice tile, it will, what will my neighbors think, what will, it makes me feel old, that's for old people. You name the, but yet she's got that soap dish, that, that ceramic soap dish that's glued into the wall and, my partner, the story I was relating is how many times he's had Mrs. Smith had the fall, grabbed onto the soap dish and now with the soap dishes in her hand and she's on the ground, right? So that's what, and it was just one of those accepted things, unfortunately that this is something that was happening in the industry. So we said why don't we just make a stronger soap dish that doesn't look like a grab bar? And so we pioneered that whole design idea and we actually came up with five bathroom accessories that in the end we tested them 500 pounds of weight capacity. So if you need it to grab onto that soap dish. Or a corner shelf, or a shampoo shelf, or a towel bar. It could handle it. And yet it didn't have, when we looked at what the psychology of what tells people visually products speak to us. And, any product that you look at, it's telling you something about itself. That, I am this, you use me this way. I have this meaning to me. Grab bars have certain Cues that tell you that they're a grab bar. One of those is a round flange, right? And that tubular design and the whole bit. So our approach with our first products that were grab bars that don't look like grab bars was to not have a flange on them. So they had a design extended. Would you like to see one? I've got one here. I would love to. All right. So this is, if you can imagine on a wall, it's actually a toilet paper holder, right? So on the wall, no flange. And toilet paper roll fits in here, and there's just a little re removable pin. And so that is something that, imagine as you're toileting, and you want just mild to moderate support, you've got that right beside you. And it's in a, you can put it in a, that advantageous location to lean forward and grab onto that. That's one example, but The idea there is strong not a spindly hand grip. This is a one and a quarter inch, so it's ADA compliant for its diameter and for its wall, the wall spacing as well. It's ADA compliant. So that's an example of just using something that you have to have on the wall anyways. And and not having to have two things on the wall. If someone does want, they're willing to accept that support, your wall starts to look a little cluttered. If you've got a bunch of grab bars and plus the bathroom accessories. So it's, we call them a two in one grab bar. And you know what

Janet Engel (2): 14:33

I like about that product is that because it has that U shape to it, you can use it to push off, but you can also use it to pull up and also use it. For stability, which I think that the grab bar normally that is placed on the wall next to the toilet has limitations. Because it can help you as you're getting down to sit down, but it doesn't help you so much when you want to get off the toilet,

John O'Brien: 15:04

right? Yeah it's true. If you, with that curve, you've got a few different grabbing cap capacities there.

Janet Engel (2): 15:11

Yeah. And it's attractive in my classes. I think we actually have a picture of one of your products in the classes. And people are fascinated by that, but, especially people that don't work in health care, that they have no idea that doubles as a grab bar. Does Healthcraft also make the grab bar, towel bar combo?

John O'Brien: 15:36

We do. Yeah, we were when we came up with the idea to make grab bars that don't look like grab bars. We introduced them at Cabus in 2008. And we wanted to have more than one. And so we really looked at what is commonly found in a bathroom. You're quite right. Actually let me show you I'll show you a bit of a collection here too. And you see, you can see on the wall a few of our other products in their packaging too. So Invisia was the first one that came out, and I said, did not have the design, the cues of the flanges. And that I'll say is a premium price point product. We wanted to ultimately come up with a a standard price product. So that, we came up with one called Plus Series. So let me, I'll see how much I can fit into the camera frame here. Okay. And to answer your questions There is towel bar, we have two different sizes of this for the 16 inch and 24 inch size shampoo shelf. You can imagine shampoo bottles fitting in here and sitting on this shelf right here. I

Janet Engel (2): 16:35

like that very

John O'Brien: 16:36

much. And a corner shelf right here. Fits in a little nook in the corner. Again, 500 pounds, weight capacity, and just a little something to hold a face cloth that can be near the when you're at the sink or even stepping out of the bath we have a version of this, too, that's mounted more in this direction. It has a holder for a toilet paper. We won't have that here at the moment. And we have another one that holds a robe. Just, again, It could be at a that could be at a height as you exit the shower, a dangerous maneuver. And we have a few other products associated with support that doesn't look like support.

Janet Engel (2): 17:16

Okay. That's beautiful. Now, I personally like the brass finish. Do your products come in, let's say, like the matte black that's very popular now?

John O'Brien: 17:29

Yes, we do. The standards, by and large, are polished chrome, like a bright chrome, and then brushed. And we have the brushed finish as well. We find that makes up about 80, 90 percent of the market. However we've got, right on site here, as a manufacturer, we've got a think paint line, but it's actually, we're not applying a liquid paint, we're actually baking a plastic onto the parts. So it's a very tough and it's an environmentally friendly surf coating. It's called powder coat. And the interesting thing with powder coating how is how rugged it is, but how many different colors and finishes that it comes in. So we have a, just an amazing matte black with a bit of texture to it. So that's available and we also have an oil rub bronze. So that's another popular one. And we have a white and things like that too.

Janet Engel (2): 18:27

Okay. And all of these products are also non skin. Or non skid or non slip.

John O'Brien: 18:35

So that's where we have, yeah, so they are polished products. And that's where we have to run, walk that line between what people will accept and what matches my beloved, plumbing fixtures. But we, in the case of the polished we do have the brushed version of that too. So that gives you a bit more traction. Now, having said that, we have another product coming out that is actually an adhesive that will product that'll fit onto that, that you'll get a true friction coating as well. There's a, I guess a few options to and then our powder coats, like for example, the matte black is a textured matte black it is a fine balance. We know there's things we'd like to have out there, and then. The things that will be accepted is the balance we have to maintain.

Janet Engel (2): 19:20

Yes. I'm glad to know that you are coming up with innovations that include the non slip technology. And I think that as you have more younger people aging they will be excited about companies that create products that are not just in the polished Chrome and the brush nickel. Yeah. Now, I love the towel bar, grab bar combination. That really is one of my favorite grab bars. Because as an OT, I saw that in people's homes all the time where the towel was hanging over the grab bar. And so now the grab bar was no longer accessible. And then it was also not safe because the towel, made it slip. So that is a great product that I think people need to use more in their bathroom and incorporate into their design. Because it just works harder for you. It's working double duty. Like you said earlier,

John O'Brien: 20:30

Absolutely. I love it. People who can appreciate the nuances of the design and you're quite right, because Could have made a towel bar that just held the weight and you put the towel over the bar, but that means you're grabbing onto a towel to grab onto the bar. So that little railing below is that there's a lot more to it than people realize to keep that grip clear. So it's no, I appreciate that. And yeah, it's interesting. When we were talking to OTs like yourself, how everyone has their favorite. Finished and product and I'm with you on the towel bar. That's, that is one of our favorites. We have another one. Unfortunately, I don't have it with me. But it is we created a bathroom accessory that wasn't used before it wasn't, in our collective minds as something you put in your bathroom, but it just fit it. In the shower environment, you have that control valve, which is generally got a round plate on it. And, we thought we see we see clients in need at risk that have to operate that control. And you know what, to, to have one hand occupied doing something it's a good idea to have a support because sometimes, the cognitive, when you're working on one thing, it's a cognitive load. By having, we actually created a ring that goes around the shower valve. We called it our accent ring and it's about 12 inches in diameter, but yeah, it's, it just fits around this ring. It it acts like a frame. And only you know that it's, a grab bar for, and actually it's in a convenient location to help people get in and out. It's halfway across, right? Yeah,

Sandy: 22:06

that's very nice because as an OT, that is one area where I always recommend a grab bar is below the controls. That's a very convenient place to have a horizontal grab bar. Attached to the wall.

John O'Brien: 22:22

Yeah, definitely. Now.

Janet Engel (2): 22:24

I also really like the innovation, which I don't think I've seen before where the caddy that you have for toiletries inside the shower area. And that was always a pet peeve of mine in people's homes is that if people don't have a niche built into their shower system, which a lot of older homes, they don't then people place them on the floor, which actually creates a fall hazard because you're having to reach down to the floor, pick up your bottle. Usually these. Bottles of shampoo and conditioner. I'm thinking as a woman, because I am a woman, they're heavy. If, and this would happen all the time where it would slip because, your hands are soapy and it would fall on your foot and that hurts. So

John O'Brien: 23:20

one thing

Janet Engel (2): 23:22

I would suggest to patients was why don't you take your toiletries. And put them in a travel size container and then have a section cup little tray that you can place in your shower. And then that way you have your items that are accessible to you at chest height. And they're also not heavy and they're off the floor. But if I love that, I think this is much better where it doubles as a grab bar and then it can support the weight. I still think people shouldn't have these big heavy shampoo bottles because it's too hard to get your hand around them. But that grab bar is just a great option for someone who didn't have a niche built in that also needs that safety support. In the shower.

John O'Brien: 24:18

Yeah, definitely. That is one of our more popular products by number sold is that shampoo shelf for the sidewall? And you're quite right. It's just, some people would like a niche. They don't have one builders who are trying to hit a budget for their their clients. Our grab bar niches are expensive and there, there's potential for water leakage in a niche too. It gives the function to hold the bottles and, but it also gives a grab bar support too. Yeah funny story. We, you can have the storage along the side, but, we can also have it in the corner. And so this is one of our shampoo corner shelf. And it can hold quite a number of bottles in the corner too. And you would normally, these are installed at grab bar height. However we have our dealers tell us, they get inventive and we've heard of these being installed about six, 10 inches above the ground level and why for being able to rest your foot on there for shaving, right? For ladies to shave. And we've had dealers who've installed them up high. I forget the exact state it was, but it's a tradition in this state that you have a, before going out for the. The football game in the cold fall you take a hot shower and you have a beer up on that upper shelf. So anyways, funny story. We one of the the interesting things that we hear back from our dealers.

Janet Engel (2): 25:44

Yeah. I wanted to ask you that question. I see on your website that a customer can buy directly from your website. But now Healthcraft also has distributorship relationships with

John O'Brien: 26:02

companies. Yes, we do. We've got a long history of working with our partners for installation. You know Our products generally have to be installed and so there's there's a, a great opportunity for dealers who have a, a mindset to to provide a complete solution and want good quality products. So we've, we're very quick to offer a local reseller of our products. that can help guide, install products work with a local therapist. And then we do get those cases where people say, I'm a contractor myself, or I have a contractor who's doing a complete project for me. I want some specific things. So it really is the world we live in these days. It's called Omnichannel, where the products are available from a number of different areas. But the, I, the biggest thing is we want to value our dealers who can provide that installation service. And then that's always our number one recommendation.

Janet Engel (2): 27:00

Okay, great. Tell me about what are some of the most innovative solutions? That health craft has developed for bathroom

John O'Brien: 27:10

safety. It's there, there's over the years it's interesting just looking back. We like to look at things that just what doesn't make sense here. That soap dish story. Why are we accepting this? What can be done about this? And, even that story I told you about the Super Bowl and the super bar, this support, which is what you'd want if you're trying to pull up from a standing and you've got limited range of motion and pain versus this. And we actually had in a trade show booth one time we created a bicycle that had a weird handlebars to it and it was to demonstrate the point we made a bicycle that had instead of the handlebars up front. We bent a piece of tube in our shop and we had the tube to the handlebar holder come along the side and then up like this. Okay. And it made a point that, we're driving our bicycles weird if we're doing this, better located support, right? So it was just things like that. And so we pioneered with I'll say pivot and lock support on that super. I can actually demonstrate it for you. And a couple of other things we did is we pioneered something called offset support. I can demonstrate that one to you as well, but and and we've done some recent innovations with installation grab bars, finding where what's in that wall behind, where's, where are the studs, where do I want the grab bar versus where's the studs, we've come up with a solution that eliminates the need for studs in most cases as well. So it, it's just, okay we got you covered here. Why don't we show you that one first? Yeah it's going to be available soon. It's called their easy mount, but basically instead of drilling a putting screws, just screws into the wall with a grab bar flange. We have you drill a hole into the wall that's about one and a quarter inches. And and that gives us access to insert this fastener through the wall so it can expand and grab onto a large section of the wall behind. And then it provides a a matching surface for the grab bar to grab onto. I say one and a quarter inch hole and think, oh my goodness, there's a big hole in the wall. But grab bar flanges are typically three inches in diameter. I'll just take this out. So this is what you end up with on the front of the wall. And behind the wall is what's doing all the work. But this has threaded holes in it that line up with where a grab bar wants to have its and we give you little screws that, and machine screws. This is a piece of metal that has a thickness to it. So the machine screws grab onto the threaded Holes within here. Now, what does the work and what inserts behind that hole in that hole is this thing right here if you can see so if you can imagine going through the hole and There it is. All right, so you steer it with these two plastic supports here through the hole and then you pull it tight and then there is this little surface right on the front That it's like a zip tie, it's not, I won't do it here, but it goes, you'll hear it go snap, and it's now holding that in place inside here is a threaded fastener into which we, we have a long screw that I'm getting a fumbling here, but there you go through the wall and this is effectively on the back behind the wall. These guys right here just snap out of the way and this little black faceplate holds it in place. You've now got this surface area behind the wall. And even in just pure drywall, we've got two of these holding a grab bar on and it meets the ADA requirements. We can pull with over that 250 pounds in weight. So ideally you're putting it, you're putting your your grab bars into two by four studs or woodblocking. That's job one, but when it's not possible and it's important, you've got this option here.

Janet Engel (2): 31:17

So that's fascinating. So that takes the job of a stud behind the wall, and it can support up to 250 lbs?

John O'Brien: 31:29

Yeah, so each, two of them holding the grab bar in place, we've tested that. We have a testing facility in house here, and it actually exceeds that. And more typically, you've got, backing board made of concrete or some other composite material. Plus some tiles or so the strength of your wall is even stronger than that. We want to make sure just for drywall alone that it would do the job. So it's very empowering for, to make sure that, you go into that into that customer location and you put your pieces of masking tape. I want to grab bar here. It's, and the wall studs are not there you've got a, you've got an option here. Yes.

Janet Engel (2): 32:07

And that, it tends to be a very common problem by the toilet when you want to place the grab bars on the wall behind the toilet cause you want the swing away grab bars is you never have the studs, located where it's going to be equally on each side of the toilet. So that would be a great. Interesting. Product to use in that instance, because really the toilet transfers tend to be the first area that people have issues with when they start having mobility issues, losing their independence. Yeah. That is where we see people needing help the soonest and needing a modification. And oftentimes raising the toilet height isn't enough. You also need grab bars and preferably the swing away grab bars instead of the ones

John O'Brien: 33:05

on the walls. Yeah. And to your point, if there is a wall adjacent that you can put the grab bar on that's very convenient. And as as our clinical educator, Sandy will remind me. Two point support even better. Right. And now one thing I will just for clarity sake, when you say the swing away grab bars. The wall mounted swing down ones, if we're referring to those ones, they actually put a little bit, if they have a small wall plate, they actually put more force. They've actually got a force amplifier. These ones would not be applicable for that application. Now we do have a solution for that where we have swing down grab bar or swing down rails where we have. A mast that mounts into the floor and then you can get, you can get good structure in the floor as well. But yeah, that is a tricky one. Probably the least favorite item to install because most typically you're taking out wall and putting in blocking or you're taking out the wall surface and putting in blocking to support those things, unless you've made provision for them. What did you want to see another one of the product? Yes, I'd

Janet Engel (2): 34:13

like to see you said you were going to show us the

John O'Brien: 34:16

super pole. Let's do that. Okay. So we're going to swing the camera around. So I'll just warn people that they so they don't get dizzy. We don't want to cause falls here. Alrighty. We're going to, we're going to pivot that camera over here and I'll try to speak a little bit louder. So this is our super pole. And fixed between the floor and the ceiling, and we've got a proper drywall ceiling in here, so you can see, aggressively I've never, it's not screwed in the ceiling, it's purely expansion fit. On the ceiling is a 20 inch by about 3 inch wide anchor plate. Yeah, thanks Sandy, that's a good idea. Look up, way up, there you go. And you can see. And that's providing both side to side support of this pole. There's also a feature in the top of the pole that prevents rotation of the pole, and that's super important. We've got a pole, which by itself, I now have support anywhere in the room. Beside a bed beside a toilet that doesn't have walls nearby. There are a lot of options, and it's not as well known in some geographical areas we find. The whole idea of a floor to ceiling bolt. Or, there's a perception that how can that be strong? And a lot of times we're thinking about those spring loaded shower curtains that fall down if you pull on the shower curtain too hard. But you saw an example of how strong that is. And again, broomstick. This is I'll show you how and I have in front of me, I'm sitting on a bench and I am in front of me, I have another seat, which simulates a transfer that I'd want to make. I'd park it right beside my knee, if it's a wheelchair, and this is how we lock this. So now that's not quite optimal, although if I'm adjusting clothes or whatever, I can lean on this. And it's just a simple lift. It locks every 45 degrees. Okay. So I can put a lot of lateral force. I can put all my weight on that. And depending on the range of mobility, pain capabilities of motion we can put this in the best located position. And here we are. I want to transfer. So I need to create force to swing myself around. I can wait there a little bit on my feet. And then. I can use an upper grip. Actually, why don't we get Sandy Would you mind, Sandy? She'll better explain this for us. Everybody, meet Sandy. Alexander, our clinical educator. Hi.

Sandy: 36:46

Hi, Sandy. Nice to see everybody. Ideally, we want to be able to lean forward to start that standing up process. I would actually move this a little further, and I would have the chair actually coming in this direction. So that my bottom doesn't need to swing a full 180 degrees. It only needs to swing 90 degrees. You're getting the bottom in there. There we go. Ideally I'm leaning forward. Two hands apart gives you a wider base of support. So I can have one hand on the horizontal and one on the vertical. And I think I'll do that for this transfer. So that I can bring myself forward, get the weight over my feet, come to standing. And once I'm secure, I can pivot to be able to turn, move my feet, and then with two hands on the horizontal bar or one hand up on the vertical, then I can lower safely down. So I'll just do that in reverse. Two hands on the horizontal bar to stand. Pivot. And move my feet slowly and with as much support as I need. And then to sit. And that's the beauty of the pivot lock process. That's great because you can use it not only to enter and exit the shower, but you can use it by the toilet. You can use it by your bed. Yes, it's excellent at the bedside or in the living room. Or in the living room. Or even a lift chair. Some people need the support to do the transfer. So the lift chair will get you into the upright posture, but you need the support to be able to move your feet towards that wheelchair or wherever you're headed. Right, and so I can move this from room to How easy is it to move it from room to room? It's not something you would do day to day, transfer to transfer. Because if I need this by the chair to transfer in and out of the chair, I personally can't take it with me to get to the bedroom. So I would want one in the living room and one in the bedroom. Yes. Okay. And how about for a caregiver? If the person had a caregiver, how easy is it for a caregiver to change its location? It's not intended to be moved for individual transfers. If you go to the cottage for a week, absolutely, you can take it with you to go to the cottage or to a vacation home of any sort. You take it with you, but for the different transfers day to day, you wouldn't be moving it room to room. Okay. Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. I'm curious, Andy, how much does that super pull cost? I will leave that to John. Okay.

John O'Brien: 39:47

Yeah, they're generally in the the 200 to 350 range, depending on the watch. Okay,

Janet Engel (2): 39:51

That's affordable considering the independence that it

John O'Brien: 39:56

gives you. Yeah and this is something that some people do feel comfortable to self install. It's got a large jack screw on the bottom. There's some assembly required. But it is in the realm of people who have, I'll say a handy person in the household or in their little orbit of friends and family. Yeah. And we've certainly actually I gave one to a friend last week who had a family member coming for a few weeks. So it just, peace of mind, right? And they didn't mind, they didn't want to put grab bars into their walls, but they were okay with this. Okay.

Janet Engel (2): 40:28

Great. And yeah, you're not changing anything about the structure of your home. So that's a great product. Especially for people who have more than one home, which baby boomers or retirees. I grew up in Florida in South Florida. I'm from Miami. So I am very accustomed to having the people who come to our state and the winter time.

John O'Brien: 40:57

Yes, a southern address.

Janet Engel (2): 41:03

Yeah. Yeah. You don't even have to be handy. I was involved in the setup of this whole. It just requires somebody with enough dexterity and getting down on your knees at one point. So it doesn't actually have to be a handy person. It can be almost any homeowner that could install it. Okay. All right. So I heard Sandy say that any homeowner can install it. You don't have to be handy. You don't have to be strong. To me, that sounds like a universal design principle that it's a simple and intuitive and requires low physical effort.

John O'Brien: 41:40

You got it. Yes, you got it. Yes. Great.

Janet Engel (2): 41:46

So John, tell me about. Future market trends that you're seeing in this

John O'Brien: 41:52

area. Yes. I think Sandy put it interest in an interesting way. Our present state of our market suffers a little bit from past products, that, the people who are needing these products have seen some, what was. Some very clunky looking things. And, Sandy will tell this story about how, she'll visit one of her clients who's been prescribed this equipment. And in Canada, we have these programs that will, give them some of this equipment. Okay. And sure enough, it's there. It's been given and it's In the closet. In the closet. Not being, not installed because that's for old people or, maybe when I'm really need it. So we have that compound on top of that, we have what I call the HGTV effect where, you know our bar has collectively been raised that we are, our home is an expression of who we are and what, it's our cocoon it's a statement of our design and so there's a big insistence on style. And, one thing our industry has not done a good job on is awareness that we exist and that, what exists because, quite commonly in the big box stores, you'll see, a collection of grab bars that have different finishes, but, there's more to it than that and both in function and in, in the pivot and lock we have that in a wall mounted grab bar, too, that swings out from the wall, actually. It, there's an awareness issue. We're finding that there's a big insistence on aesthetic and we're trying to really, create solutions for that. Less bathtubs, for sure, more showers, and zero thresholds, for sure. We're seeing adaptations where a lot of bathtubs are being having those tub cuts. If you get around that, that, that challenge of raising that a lot of those are happening now, we're seeing that we're also seeing, who doesn't love a soaker tub however, not so accessible. So we're, we're trying to grapple with that. So that's some of the things that we're seeing in in design. And rightly just because someone is an older adult and they, their abilities have diminished or their balance or strength or have diminished, it doesn't mean they still want that beautiful bathtub, bathroom, right? Right. So that's what we're hoping to do with Invisia and the Plus Series is to give them that that option. I, on that point, I've got another product that I'd like to show you that is this is, this one is, gets a lot of A lot of comments. So the premise here is we're all about fall prevention, fall safety, and we believe that like you identified, you can set, there can, there's situations that can increase your risk of a fall. And standing versus sitting safer sitting, right? Our industry has solutions for sitting for a shower or and I'll say they're not they look like our industry, most of them, right? They have that white and aluminum legs and that type of thing. So we decided we want to make a seated surface that. Looked like a spa. So you want to tell me what you think. I'm

Janet Engel (2): 44:53

listening. I like

John O'Brien: 44:56

spas. So this, if you can imagine, it's called our Serena seat. It's a wall mounted seat. Okay. We introduced this to the world a few years back and it mounts to the wall and it folds down and it holds up to 500 pounds. Okay. Comes in different widths, comes in different finishes. This is our and it mounts to the wall and these instead of metal or this is a very warm to the touch wood, but it's an engineered bamboo product. So it's very warm to the touch. It's got a. It's got a very rugged surface finish on it, and these are actually removable. So I don't know if the camera would pick that up, but there's a wall that exposes holes in the back that allows you to mount it to the wall with quite a wide stance on the wall. And so when you talk about mom or dad not wanting their bathroom to look different, but wanting it to be safe, this is a, this plus some of our Invisia products, you've got an accessible bathroom that is safe. You do, and I

Janet Engel (2): 46:03

love that, and I've been preaching for many years that people should sit in the shower, at least do a portion of their bathing tasks in the seated position because it's much safer. At one point we're going to close our eyes to wash our hair. We're going to look down to wash our feet. Just so many different things that you do in the shower. Soap gets into your eyes. And so it's great to be able to sit when you need to sit. And then also one thing I really like about your chair is that it is wide enough because most of the bath benches that you see that are attractive, like the teak benches that you can buy on Amazon they are so narrow. That, unless you have a petite woman your average man is not going to fit on that seat. Yes.

John O'Brien: 47:04

It's very true. We have a couple of different widths. We have an 18 inch and a 30 inch wide. Yes.

Janet Engel (2): 47:10

Yeah. Good. And I like the back as well because that is also. Going to make it much more comfortable while you're in the shower to not have a back is not comfortable, especially for older people, that we tend to have kyphosis as we age, there could be issues with the spine just so many different things that not having that back support is going to make it less tolerable. For someone and more taxing. And I don't know if you knew this, but bathing is actually one of the activities of daily living that requires the most energy.

John O'Brien: 47:50

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. This is the, we're talking about fragmentation of our industry and this is the kind of magic that happens when. We talk between, our specialties, right? You learn these things and we can really

Janet Engel (2): 48:04

tell you, you talk to a client and they'll say, Oh, it's exhausting to take a shower. And that's because it is, especially for someone who has health issues who has low endurance, taking a shower is going to be more tiring, especially if they use hot water and you have steam that's building up in that room. And there's no way for that. steam to escape, that's also going to cause the heart to work harder because it thinks you're exercising, right? It thinks you're running down the street. So your heart is pumping more blood throughout your body. So that makes you more tired.

John O'Brien: 48:44

Yep. Interesting.

Janet Engel (2): 48:47

Yeah, so I love that product. I think it's just crucial to have a seated surface inside the shower. And I much prefer a wall hung benches rather than the built in benches because the built in benches take up space. They take up valuable space, they require more maintenance, and they are also cold. And then they have a big issue with hygiene. If you, if there's no way for that water to run through, then what's happening? Now we're putting the person at risk for a urinary tract infection.

John O'Brien: 49:29

That's it's an interesting when you take it down to all those levels and it's a great point and you have when you take a bathtub and five foot bathtubs footprint and put a shower in his place and you have a permanent seat area that for, the people who just want to stand the maybe there's many people in that household they've got less floor space there. Versus a surface that flips up and then you've suddenly got now it's out of the way. Yeah, the other, I'll add on top of some very excellent medical and occupational therapy points. We've had builders tell us that for them to go in and finish a job, those seat surfaces are more complicated. And B, to your point even though they try to be, as good as they can at waterproofing them they have failures and they've got, it's a warranty claim for them and the glass panel, depending how they build it, that they want to put on the side where that seat surface is located, that glass panel has to be custom cut every time. So that's a delay as well. That's a great point. Interesting, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So they, the builders that we show this to, it's the light bulbs go off saying that this is going to save me so much fuss. I can get the job done quicker. The customers are going to love the added floor space. My glass panel now becomes standard. And, you raise some other good points that builder can also talk about more. And it looks better. Right on. It's more modern. There you go. Yeah. It

Janet Engel (2): 50:58

does. Yeah. So what is the cost of that seat? That product?

John O'Brien: 51:04

Yeah. We've got a few different models of this that have different frame structures, different finishes, different wood colors. So they range between 300 and 700 type of thing. Okay. Yeah. And we have ones that are made out of stainless steel, ones that are made out of aluminum with a coating on them. And there's more models coming too.

Janet Engel (2): 51:25

When you consider that a surgery at the hospital will cost about 30, 000, then 300 isn't bad. Right on. I just learned, I don't know if you're aware of this, but we were talking about falls at the beginning of the show. And falls in older people usually result in one of two types of injuries. One is a hip fracture and the other is a traumatic brain injury, which both are very serious. And the death rate for someone who has experienced a hip fracture, it is 33 percent for a woman. If a woman fractures her hip within that year, Her incidents or risk of dying go up to 33%. And for a man it's 37%.

John O'Brien: 52:23

Yeah. In that one year, right? Wow. It's

Janet Engel (2): 52:25

so that is. Right there, you could be a perfectly healthy person that trips over the threshold going from your patio inside your house, which let me tell you happens a lot because those thresholds are pretty high. And then you fall on your side, break your hip. And I was just talking to someone the other day and they were, and I brought that up and he said to me, Oh, that's what happened. To my dad and he died within six months of having the hip

John O'Brien: 52:58

surgery. Yep. Yeah, that's, it's interesting and I'm writing a book on this. And it's been interesting to just about connecting those fragmented elements of our industry. And you raised a good point that, there's so much that's there's, I call them my five surprising truths about falls. That's

Janet Engel (2): 53:17

great.

John O'Brien: 53:18

Yeah. And you went through them all. They're much more common than you realize. This is, unfortunately these things are realized often in the rear view mirror, right? It's happened. And they're more common than you realize, one in three fall over the age of 65 every year. And then you get into the, they're more negatively, number two is they're more negatively impacting than people realize it's we think, Oh, I fell, I'm going to get up and on, I dust myself off and away I go and, hopefully that's the case. They're most, they're very, number three is they're very misunderstood for their causes. And we've talked about a bunch of things, everything from it could be a, just a temporary situation, a temporary illness. It could be a blood pressure issue, getting used to new drugs, it could be a vitamin deficiency, it can be a visual change, on it goes, so they're very misunderstood I'm trying to bring together all those issues that people don't typically know. And just sometimes that knowledge is very powerful. And I'll say they're very challenging to solve at times because of, a lot that what the built environment makes possible, what people understand the a number and also just acceptance issue there. So they're challenging to solve, but. The fifth truth is that there's so many of them that are preventable and, they don't have to happen, right? So that's,

Janet Engel (2): 54:36

Especially the ones related to the home environment. So according to the Centers for Disease Control, people fall for four main reasons. So you've mentioned a few. So one is physical debility. Okay. Generalized weakness problems with your vision taking medications incorrectly. And hazards in the home, right? And one third of falls are directly related to hazards in the home, right? And so those are totally preventable.

John O'Brien: 55:08

Yep, absolutely. It's I'm, there's so many. This is a safety issue and there's been so many safety paradigms in history that have changed, something has happened, there's been a, a few triggering events, there's been a, I guess a critical mass of things that have happened and we're now all good with wearing those seatbelts in the car, and you feel a little bit odd if you don't, and I grew up skiing without a helmet, now I wouldn't be seen without my helmet, right? Yeah, it's. And and we all have our smoke alarms and all those things, grab bars in the shower that's and oddly enough, we have a grab bar down our stairs, which is not quite as dangerous as a bathroom and we're all cool with having this grab bar on our stairs because we're It's the thing we do.

Janet Engel (2): 55:54

I think John, and this is going to be the last point is that it all goes back to making it look good. I was just watching this Netflix special, you are what you eat. And I don't know if you've had a chance to see it, but it's a great show, great series. And they talk about how having a plant based diet is going to make people healthier. Plus it is going to save the earth because having people consuming meat. It's just wreaking havoc on the environment. And they said that it doesn't, they have realized that talking to people, trying to rationalize with them and explaining to them how it's bad for your health, it's bad for the environment. We have to consume less meat, eat more vegetables, more fruits, that doesn't work. What works is making plant based foods. That tastes like meat and have the texture of meat

John O'Brien: 56:57

that works. You give it up.

Janet Engel (2): 56:58

That is what that industry is doing. Right. And I liken it to our industry is that you have to make products that look good, that blend with their existing environment. And that are not going to stand out products that have general appeal products that are going to increase your property value, then people will go ahead and put that

John O'Brien: 57:27

in the bathroom here,

Janet Engel (2): 57:31

yeah. But thank you, John, so much. And Sandy, thank you for being with us today as well. We love having OTs. And John, I'd love to have you come back maybe in the future, you can talk to us about a future product or new things that are going on in the

John O'Brien: 57:56

industry. There's always so much to talk about. It'd be my pleasure but thank you for having me. Okay. You're welcome.