Multi-Generation Living & Home Design

Summary

In this conversation, Daniel Fuchs shares his insights on multi-generational living, drawing from his personal experiences as a caregiver for his father with Alzheimer's.

He discusses the increasing trend of families living together, especially post-COVID, and the emotional and financial benefits that come with it.

Daniel emphasizes the importance of designing homes for multi-generational living, including the need for separation and privacy, and explores the concept of aging in place.

He also highlights the role of technology in enhancing communication and safety within these households.

Finally, he introduces his book, 'The Ultimate Guide to Multi-Generational Living,' which offers practical advice and insights for families considering this lifestyle.

Takeaways

One in four families in the US lives in a multi-generational arrangement.

The COVID-19 pandemic has increased interest in multi-generational living.

Personal experiences can shape one's approach to caregiving and home design.

Aging in place is a priority for many seniors.

Separation and privacy are crucial in multi-generational households.

ADUs provide a practical solution for multi-generational living.

Emotional benefits include stronger family bonds and shared experiences.

Home technology can enhance safety and communication.

Effective communication is key to managing family dynamics.

Daniel's book offers resources and insights for families considering multi-generational living.

Sound Bites

"One in four families lives in a multi-generational arrangement."
"I had to relocate my entire family."
"I became a first-hand caregiver."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Multi-Generational Living
10:04 The Importance of Aging in Place
11:36 Designing for Multi-Generational Living
14:40 Understanding Aging in Place
19:37 Emotional Benefits of Multi-Generational Living
24:22 Design Features for Privacy and Separation
28:06 The Rise of Accessory Dwelling Units (ADUs)
33:22 Home Technology in Multi-Generational Households
39:19 The Ultimate Guide to Multi-Generational Living

Transcript

Janet Engel (00:01)
Hello everyone and thank you for being with me today. My guest is Daniel Fuchs. He is the president of Forever Homes on the West Coast. He is also the founder of MultiGen Homes. He is a two -time TEDx speaker and he is also an expert when it comes to creating designs for multi -generational homes.

Daniel, thank you for being with us today.

Danniel (00:33)
Thank you, Janet, for having me. I'm very excited.

Janet Engel (00:36)
Yes, so I wanted to invite you on my show because...

Now one in four families in the US lives in a multi -generational living arrangement. And this has increased since COVID for obvious reasons. Families didn't want to leave their loved ones in the senior living communities when people were dying and were being kept from seeing family members and even seeing other residents. So tell us about how

you became interested in this topic.

Danniel (01:16)
good. for quite a long time, for 20 years, I was building a career in a whole different world in the building material industry. So I really got involved in construction processes and everything around that.

But then I got a business offer on the West Coast and I had to relocate my entire family from the East Coast to the West. During this process all our belongings were stolen.

Janet Engel (01:47)
you

Danniel (01:48)
without getting into the details of how and what, because it's really, really upsetting. Just kind of imagine the scenario of us moving in, two kids, two suitcases, literally two suitcases, and what seems to be a very large home to what we used to live in. You know, on the East Coast, we lived in New York, in Chicago, in Charlotte, all those little places, maybe 11, 1200 square feet houses, and then we moved to a house

we bought here that was 3 ,600 feet and a garage so it felt so empty and the same week exactly I'm getting a phone call from my mother that said that she can no longer take care of my dad my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer several years prior to that and she's like I'm done I can't and for me it was really really

Janet Engel (02:23)
Yeah.

Danniel (02:45)
you know, bad news. I felt so bad about that. And the person that raised me and been such a fantastic, phenomenal father, now I'm gonna send him into an assisted living facility.

far, far away. And my wife is a nurse. So she's been telling me all those stories about the Mentev and Alzheimer patients in their department in hospital. And she shared how they tie them with handcuffs and how they pull in their diapers. And sometimes people don't replace the diapers on time. And I'm like, I had this horrible, horrible, horrible picture in my head.

So on the other hand, I had a fantastic scenario at my house, big house, empty. I'm looking at my wife, I'm like, what do you think? Maybe we can create a fantastic separation. We'll have the walls here. We're not gonna fill them. We're just gonna be next door, but.

but at least they will be next to me and that will not have to go to assisted living. And my mother was also so depressed by being a caregiver. And we know the statistic that many caregivers are literally dying before, know, enduring that process of caregiving. So there were two people that I had to save. My wife was not only supportive, she even...

Janet Engel (03:55)
Yeah.

Danniel (04:11)
pushed me in all the doubts that I had, like how it's going to be. And we had an experience also living next to her parents that was, you know, very challenging and we learn a lot of things of what not to do. So we had a lot of concerns, but she pushed me and I pushed me and we made it happen. Called my mom. I told her, look, you're not giving him away. You're coming to live with us. It also took some conviction as you can imagine, but we

up agreeing on that process so we started to build a unit and doing it perfectly and creating this separation. By the way at the moment without safety features because I did not know how important it is to prepare the house to seniors but we completed the whole unit and literally two days before I went to pick them up across the ocean

the house got burned. In the process of installing a gate so my father won't be able to run away, they welded the gate, the screw got super hot, the entire house started the fire of 27 hours and yeah after 27 hours and thankfully my kids were not there, the house was totally lost. But like every good

Janet Engel (05:12)
Hmm.

Wow, that's an amazing, terrible story.

Danniel (05:42)
It is an amazing terrible story. reason why it's amazing is because it helped me to carve my way to what I'm doing today. I knew then while the house was fully smoked.

That you know that it's gonna be okay and the house is insured because we live in a fire zone So I knew that will be fine It was just a concern of like wait a minute, you know I plan to live in a full separation from my parents and now we're gonna live together and My dad is not just stage one Alzheimer's already stage six stage seven This is the toughest stages of Alzheimer's. So and how mom will react to this, you know, so these were my thoughts of like shit

But this is definitely what I was able to see it as a positive way. So I went there, I picked them up. Of course, at the beginning we slept in hotels and eventually we got into some nice size houses, but...

The original plan of separation was not happening as we landed. So I became a first -hand caregiver to that understanding what does it mean to take care of a senior with Alzheimer's stage six, stage seven. He didn't know who I am. He didn't know who's my wife. He didn't know who's my mom. We kind of pulled some habits that he had. We pulled it out of him, right? So he lived in one house. was able to do specific

Janet Engel (07:07)
Mm -hmm.

Danniel (07:10)
activities just as automation and he no longer could do that so he was really lost but we took care of him with maximum compassion and even though that was really challenging and I kind of learned how to manage the situation in the most extreme way it was amazing because you see your dad is like smiling and sending us kisses and you know in tough situation where he was violent or you know it was hard to dress him up or it was

hard to take him to the shower with compassion, loves, hugs, you know, we brought him into, into like, okay, I'm not going to be that violent. But then

I couldn't stop thinking like what if he would be in a facility? What if, and no matter how much the facility is fancy and expensive, nobody can give him the care that I can. And later on we brought some help and of course it was really, really manageable. But I was there and my wife was there to give him that compassion level.

like zooming out on the situation, like, wow, that is incredible. That is happy. Mom is like surrounded by her grandkids from a depressive like killing myself. She became so happy and fulfilled and full of meaning. My kids, you know, it's just amazing. Everybody appreciate their kids, but I never told them, hey, you need to do this and you need to do that in reference to their grandparents. And they were so compassionate.

You know, until that day, you need to see how they take their grandma with their hands back to her unit. And that's just amazing, you know, so their compassion, their resilience. My father passed away three, almost four months ago. So they saw the entire hospice process and they saw death and they saw things that kids six and nine years old maybe don't usually see, but I can only tell you that make them stronger.

Janet Engel (08:56)
I'm sorry.

Danniel (09:10)
connects them to the fact that there is a circle of life. And it's just check, check, check on so many things that I'm like, kids, amazing, mom, amazing, dad, amazing. My wife and I, from a perspective that we are a typical sandwich generation and we're very caring right now for our kids. So now we're just caring also for my parents and it felt so right and

Janet Engel (09:37)
Mm -hmm.

Danniel (09:39)
so meaningful because you know and you know that as a mother it's it's being a parent is really not easy it's very very hard you always in constant fear and you always cared for their well -being and and and and do i do the right thing so so it's it's not a pleasant experience

Janet Engel (09:59)
Yeah, it's the, it's, always say it's the hardest job you'll ever have.

Danniel (10:04)
but it's very meaningful.

And that's the meaning, feel that the meaning is where the happiness is being connected. It's where the profound things are showing up. And that's where I felt being a caregiver, having that right mindset, not like, my God, know, that is now pulling or peeping in the bed and we need to change the sheets. And it can be really drowning. But if you have the mindset of like, hey, I mean, I just did it with my kids several years ago. It's not that different.

that this gentleman gave me his life. So for me it was really very profound and really successful.

Janet Engel (10:46)
Daniel, tell me your experience in the kitchen and bath industry. You've worked in this industry for decades. You were an executive at Caesarstone. How did this experience influence your approach to designing for multi -generational living spaces?

Danniel (11:07)
So I don't think it was so much on the design thing. Of course, it was more about me being in the trenches with contractors and trenches with developers of multi -family units. And what I learned, I learned a lot about the construction industry from that angle. So I'll give you an example. When you're dealing with a major developer that he's the money, he's the one, he's like the homeowner, right? He has the money to build. They always have...

construction professional in their team. Because the fact that they are dealing directly with the GC, that doesn't mean they know all the details. They don't necessarily know exactly what to expect. And if the GC comes and say, it's gonna cost you $100 million, they're not necessarily know that it's actually not true.

And that's why they have in -house, like developers rep within the team to make sure that they're making the right decisions. And on the multi -generational project that I have, even though it's on a small scale, I realize how much the information that I know on subcontractors and expectations and pricing and doing all those things is so crucial. So I knew how to ask the right questions. I knew how to make sure to navigate

through this process of building and how to tie myself to the right subcontractors due to my years in this industry. The second thing I learned about in my process in Caesarstone and some other companies I worked for is the reactiveness of many of the contractors. Many contractors like, you know, place an order for material literally a few weeks before the project and

I was so reactive versus proactive, which I said, you know, I'm in my case, it's not going to happen. I'm going to make sure that all the raw materials, everything that everything that I need for this project is ready. Everything that, you know, that we need to.

to buy or to service, a service, not necessarily a product, everything is laid out in advance as much as possible. And also understand that construction is not something that is just working nicely like an Excel spreadsheet. You're dealing here with humans, humans are doing mistakes, things are falling between the cracks, one thing influenced the other.

And what I found is many contractors, especially that they're small, they would go and say, that project is to cost you $150 ,000. But later on, they would realize that things are not necessarily working as they planned. And suddenly this job is becoming $200 ,000.

And when it's a multi -generational project, they're so sensitive to begin with, you cannot do those mistakes. And what I do is really bringing that knowledge to the families, helping them to prevent and get the realistic idea of what's the budget, realistic idea of what are the timelines and the realistic truth that things are not going to work as they plan to. And it's very important to have that right expectation. So I feel that's what really brought me on not so much on the

sense of the design, but more so in the sense of conducting business in an industry that I've been doing and living in for over 20 years.

Janet Engel (14:31)
Daniel, could you explain the concept of aging in place and how it relates to multi -generational living?

Danniel (14:40)
So 77 % of people, believe above 50, you know the statistic better than me, wants to age in place. I mean, I think that most of the people would like to age in place and that is just a giving. So when you look at the facts and the fact that most of the people want to stay at home while they're aging, this is where...

the focus of reality is. And now if you start to break it down to what needs to happen to age in place, the first thing is safety. know, the statistic of one of four Americans fall every year and break something. And the fact that 30 % of women that will break their hip will not survive the first year.

after this incident, if they're 65 and up, the statistics are crazy. And this is not what you want to envision as aging in place. So aging in place is really number one to make sure that you age safely. Number two is that you're connected to all the resources, right? If it's an in -home care services that can help you to be in a better position because you can no longer act like you were

when you were young. So from washing the dishes and doing your laundry to go to the doctor and also every situation is very different. Some people are close to their parents. Some people live on the other side of the country. So just be aware of all the services. And lastly, I mean, there's a lot of things that we can talk about, but I think the profound things is loneliness. You know, if people are by themselves and aging,

in their home, they want to be close to their community, they want to be close to their doctor, but they still suffer from loneliness, they still feel alone, many of their friends died or moved away, their parents or their kids not necessarily live next to them, so there's a big factor of loneliness. So when you look at all those things on a multi -generational household setup, I find it to be an amazing solution for some. I totally don't talk about the people that have complex

Janet Engel (16:58)
Mm.

Danniel (17:02)
relationship with their in -laws and their parents. I get it. A lot of people are there.

But some people do have a healthy relationship. And there's a lot of people that have maybe low income, but a lot of equity in their home that can be utilized to preserve the property, to preserve their family legacy, and not only to preserve it, but actually grow with it. Because on a multi -generational household, you have the family next to you. So everything that is related to medical, from taking your medication, from falling, from being lonely,

It's being taken care of just by being in that constellation. And on the other hand, not only you're not going to lose the money to send somebody to your parents to assisted living, you actually can build like an ADU or upgrade your property. And on the spot, you increase the value of your property. And that is profound because number one, you got more money in your pocket. Number two, you got your family together and they're

all, you know, like for instance, in home care services or even with my own personal story, I did not take care of dad like changing his diapers except the weekends, you know, I had help, I had somebody that comes in and help me out. So it was manageable, the cost was manageable. And just by putting two budgets together of two families, the savings were ridiculous. And I'll share with you later on some stories of customer I'm working with.

saving of up to $120 ,000 annually, which gives you a lot of money to take care of the in -home services. So that's where multi -generational and aging in place are connected.

Janet Engel (18:54)
Now you have gone into detail about the benefits financially that come with bringing two households together. What about emotionally? How did your family specifically benefit since I know that you have two young kids, you have a wife that works full time, you work full time.

to the chunks.

Danniel (19:20)
So you're about the challenges pretty much versus the benefits.

Janet Engel (19:24)
No, I'm talking about the benefits the benefits you already explained the financial benefits But what are some of the emotional? benefits that you experience from this

Danniel (19:27)
Thanks

Firstly, you know, I'll start with the very basic things as family dinners. You know, when we were just my wife and I, just, every person would eat whatever, we'll feed the kids. There was no, this nice family dinner. And my mom that came with this mentality of family dinner every night, it's amazing. We have our family dinners, we sit every day on a table for dinner.

all of us and there is so much family bonding you know my kids are getting suddenly so interested about history because their grandmother telling them stories about the Holocaust and World War II and and the revolution and Soviet Union when she originally come from so it is the bonding

That is amazing. It's the financial benefits that we talked about because it helped me for instance now to build my own business while not being so stressed because we split a lot of the costs. So while my wife is working and I'm still, you know, starting those, all those initiatives, it gives me the peace of mind that everything is, is, is okay. They're open to cultures. They are.

really developing their resilience and when they see senior in the street they approach them, they talk to them.

You know, like they improve their communication skills. And I think that it's very confusing to be a parent these days, right? With all the technology that are getting involved with the loneliness that it's not just about the seniors. It's their loneliness. A kid that is in front of a screen and he doesn't evolve and involve in the entire part of being part of a family. They're really, really lonely. And we prevent that because there's no screen time. We're sitting as a family. There's a lot.

of family interactions, they go to their grandmother, which she doesn't have this technology around her. So I feel that these are profound emotional benefits for us. For my mother, I mean, she has meaning for her life. She feels important, not only by sometimes cooking for her grandkids, but just, you know, sharing expenses with us, being involved in our life in not in a, you know, not in a way that

Janet Engel (21:41)
Mm

Danniel (21:59)
She dictated to us what to do in life, you know, but as a partner, as a partner in this whole family constellation. So I think that she was the one that had the biggest impact. She's a happy person from a miserable person, even before my dad got sick, she's so happy. to see that is amazing. So.

Janet Engel (22:21)
Mm

Danniel (22:24)
everybody just benefit from that. And obviously, knock on wood on the health side, we're monitoring her, we monitor her medicine, know, people, seniors, not necessarily taking their medication on time, saying, yeah, can, I take the, and she did that when she first moved to us. She's like, yeah, I'm taking the blood pressure just when I feel a bit weird. Like what? You don't take it every day? No, why should I? And this is not, this is common.

Janet Engel (22:32)
You

-huh.

Danniel (22:54)
So she's on her medication, know, she's doing her sports activity. She's moving around. So we really, really check on health for mom, check on social for both of us. Kids, amazing. My wife and I really are just, feel very, like.

Janet Engel (23:05)
you

and you have time to do things. You also have more free time to spend time with your spouse. Otherwise you wouldn't have because you can't leave the kids at home.

Danniel (23:25)
And I can tell you that the in -home services that she gets, she pays for, we benefit from that as well. So if the lady that comes to do the laundry and cleaning her kitchen, guess what? She's already on the way. She's doing our laundry and cleaning our kitchen.

So also on our relationship, and I think a lot of people can connect to that between husband and wife and who's doing the dishes and all we have tons of laundry and it's so draining and it brings so much tension in the relationship. Even the relationship with you and your kids like, we don't have that because we already kind of maximize all that under one roof. And so our relationship is better. My wife's and I, and it's just really, I

I know the challenges and we took care of the challenges and once you take care of the challenges you stay only with the benefits.

Janet Engel (24:22)
So one of the major challenges with living in a multi -generational household is where people feel that they are able to come together when they want to come together, but have privacy when they want to have privacy. You are a certified aging in place specialist. What do you think?

are the most important features of a multi -generational household, design -wise, considering you are in this situation.

Danniel (24:56)
So design wise, it's in one word, as you mentioned it, it's separation. It's to make sure that you don't feel that you live under one roof. So if you build a total separate ADU as a standalone unit in your yard, that's perfect.

It's not always the most cost effective option, but it's definitely a fantastic separation. You're here, they're there and separation is a key because the moment that there is no separation and I have experienced what it is to live with your parents, when there's no walls that separating you, it is not sustainable. It is not. And even though we were able to go through that almost two years live that way, we were very challenged.

because there's no privacy and the kids don't have their privacy and you don't have your privacy. So whenever I go in this process with families, separation is mandatory. But it can also be a separation by what we did here and that is converting a space to become a parent space. So when you do that, you you got to understand that it's not just putting a wall.

it's to use the most expensive insulation so it will really really have that privacy because the last thing is you want to hear your mom or your mom want to hear your kids and they still going to but to minimize it to the max so this is these were the the very important thing as a concept of separation the the drywall with the insulation having again a full

kitchen, a full bathroom, like not sharing those together, but really make sure that mom have

her own independency, she has her own kitchen, she has her own laundry, even though she doesn't make a lot of laundry, she has her own laundry, she has her own bathroom. And the twist that happened between the first time that I built her home to the second time is really the safety feature. Because her house now has pretty much the bathroom have the grab bars in the back of the toilet on the front, she has the shower with

zero entry inside even though she doesn't need it at the moment we don't know how things will evolve there are handrails there are trash hold ramps so everything is super super safe and she is not in a position of danger does it mean that she can't fall no she can still fall but we're trying to minimize that so that was the second piece that

Janet Engel (27:38)
it's less likely that she will fall. Now accessory dwelling units known as ADUs are becoming more popular around the country especially in places where the code is allowing building codes are allowing them to be built and I know California is one of them. What can you tell us about

this trend with ADUs and what it will take for this to continue to expand throughout the country. And do you see ADUs as a good option for people not only who want to live in a multi -generational household, but also people who want to create income from renting their space to either an older person or a younger person.

Danniel (28:32)
Great question because.

There is two terminology, right? There is multi -generational household that stands for the family that is taking care of you or being there with you. And by the way, it doesn't have to be just your kids. It can be your grandson, right? It can be your grandson that can be in the ADU unit. can or not pay any rent or pay a reduced rent and still watching his grandparents. So that's one way there is intergenerational living where you bring total strangers to your

home but that also can be vetted by bringing students from medical school, bringing students from you know social studies, people that are more oriented to be supportive and lastly maybe even to bring a caregiver to live in a separated unit he or she are not necessarily going to be there

throughout the whole week but they're number one now living in a nicer neighborhood with reduced rent or no rent but it's kind of you know making the cost of home care

support much more manageable and it's a win -win for everybody. So that can be established on an ADU and I'm a big proponent for ADU, I'm a big supporter of ADUs because this is the way to create a separation. So even if it's a family member that feel now separated from his grandparents or parents, it's also a total stranger that

is not really sharing a room because the moment that you're in the same space, you're gonna do much work than what you're being asked. But if you are in a separation, then it's your own unit and your kids can go to a better school. You can be closer to your potential customers because one of the biggest challenges that you learn from home care agencies is that their people...

you know, are coming from long distances and it's a challenge for them to show up in those affluent neighborhoods. So if you have the equity and have the caregiver in your backyard or close to your home, that is a fantastic, fantastic way to do it. So this is amazing opportunity. And as you said, in California, it's becoming more and more popular within my neighborhood. It's relatively new. So it's a growing category and it's a very

profound way to utilize equity because while people maybe don't have the same income they used to have and they only live from Social Security and maybe some savings they're still sitting on a house that have in some cases half a million dollar equity to even three million dollar equity so instead of taking that money now and go to an assisted living that you don't even know how long you will you will have the money to do it

Think how to leverage that equity to create more wealth to your kids, to create more prosperity.

and to keep your legacy and even increase that legacy. So you can go ADU on both ways. In California, one of the challenges is there's not a lot of yard space, right? The lots are much smaller. So the solutions usually will come from converting the garage or if you have a very large home, then create some separation within existing space. But then other places that have

more space in yards can definitely use an ADU that was already pre -constructed and ready to install in the backyard. So it really depends on the situation. That's why I tell people there's no one solution fits everybody. It's really about your situation. And one thing that is very important here before we even meet with the designer and the contractor

is to meet with the financial advisor that can totally evaluate the situation here and say, okay, you know,

based on that this is how much money you can get and it's it's funny think about it an average ad in california will cost 150 000 for six 800 square feet space but if you converted now this garage you increase the total square feet of your house you added 300 000 on paper right away to the value just by pulling 150 000 as a as a reverse mortgage or any kind of other mortgage

So it is the immediate and the smartest way to leverage your finance and really by joining those budgets have plenty of money to bring in home services and elevate everybody's quality of life.

Janet Engel (33:22)
Yeah. And decreasing each person's responsibility too, which obviously is going to contribute to quality of life. What about...

Danniel (33:33)
Of course, and by the way, teaching your kids to be involved, right? Because again, yeah, you need to do, you know, go, it's no longer like we're gonna go visit grandma once a week. It's like...

Janet Engel (33:36)
and tea. Yeah.

Danniel (33:46)
naturally there she's there and naturally they are more involved and there's like a commune feeling of you know being and having chores and we got to do it for our kids you know the mentality of like we'll do that for them is not acceptable here they're part of the tribe they have to do what they have to do and they just make them better humans

Janet Engel (34:08)
What about home technology and how it plays a role in designing the multi -generational household? What home technologies do you see work really well in these settings?

Danniel (34:22)
So now I'm also part of the movement of H -Tech. So I'm the CEO of H -Tech LA. So I get to learn and see a lot of technologies in that space that are really amazing. But I can tell you one thing that when you do a multi -generational household, many of those technologies are not in need. So.

For instance, some of the technologies that we presented in our recent event are helping to create like a video conversation when an individual can see the screen, literally a big screen and can see his kids and they can see him. So those things are happening organically in our home without the technology or technology that help medication or help to watch mom and dad in a facility if they're moving right or wrong.

Here I can see mom daily and see how she's doing and ask her how she's doing. So on the multi -generational, and that's where I feel that technology is amazing and technology is probably one of the only solutions on scale. But if you really want to put technology on the side and stay human and really benefit from it, multi -generational is what helps a lot.

There's technology of companies that are fraud.

You know, my mom would come to me and say, look at this gentleman in Facebook. He even know my language and he's approaching me very nicely. I'm like, mom, it's a bot and he is totally trying to take your money. It's like, no way. It looks so real. And, you know, so I helped to prevent fraud with my mother. I, there's so many aspects and there's so many technologies that are amazing to prevent that in a multi -gen living. It's not just a.

It's live on and prevent all those issues of seniors on an intergenerational living when your mother and your father don't live with you and you have somebody that just watching them. That's where technology is very important because you need to have all those remote products to help them to make sure that they're you know, that they're not falling into the traps or not falling literally or Etc. So

Janet Engel (36:36)
Mm -hmm.

What about, I would think communication technologies would still be very useful even when you have the different generations living under the same roof because let's say for example, your mother takes a nap every day between two and four o 'clock, right? But something has come up where you do need to communicate with her and now you could use, let's say the Alexa drop -in feature.

or the Amazon Echo drop -in feature and see if your mom is available without disturbing her now. having to, if you have an ADU, let's say you now don't have to go outside, perhaps it's snowing or raining. So now you can communicate, and I know we can do that over the telephone too, but what if someone has their ringer off or,

Danniel (37:27)
your opportunity.

You're absolutely right.

Janet Engel (37:46)
You know, what if the phone's out of battery? With having Amazon, that will turn on because it's plugged in. So I would think that's one technology.

Danniel (37:54)
You're absolutely right.

You're absolutely right. And I can tell you that all the families I work with, including my own, we installed Alexa and we're using those things because yeah, what will happen if mom fall and I don't live there, right? We have a fantastic separation. So yes, she still need those things. It's just in a smaller magnitude. even the technologies that are available today and creating like a almost

a virtual community where you can go and see classes and lectures and be connected to people virtually, this is still profound. Maybe I can help her with some loneliness on the family side, but friends or community is still something that is important to do remotely. So I would change my answer, you know, just again to say that it's more balanced, right?

Janet Engel (38:48)
Mm

Okay.

Danniel (38:58)
some of the tools I don't need but some of them are still very very important.

Janet Engel (39:05)
Yes. Daniel, tell us about your book. You wrote a book, The Ultimate Guide to Multi -generational Living. What inspired you to write this book?

Danniel (39:19)
So firstly, to share the story. Every time that I shared my story right here in the beginning of the podcast, people always told me, you gotta write it, you gotta write about it. It's amazing story about resilience, about life, about changing in plan, about taking care of your parents. And I'm like, okay, that makes sense. So the first part of the book is really kind of sharing the story and what brought me to that.

But later it's kind of, because the statistics are saying that people are really happy living in multi -generational, but it comes with its challenges. So when I'm saying people are happy, you know, during COVID there was a spike of family moving in together and what they found that after COVID, five out of seven families decided to stay, live that way because they were happy.

But the challenges that goes with that is what we spoke earlier. It's the separation, not just the physical separation, but also the mental separation. So I had dedicated a whole part of the book on that exactly.

the insulation and the wall and the inclusive area. Like for instance, in our house, the kitchen is huge because that's the place where we all meet and we have our dinner and we have our hangouts, you know? So that's like the design side of things. So I wrote like the blueprint of that. So that was one section on the book.

Janet Engel (40:49)
Mm

Danniel (40:52)
And another major section is about the second challenge, and that is also mentioned as a challenge. This is the communication side of things. And the communication side of things is, firstly, how to build your own emotional resistance. I mean, my story is obviously talking about emotional resistance, but.

You know, it's like the story on the plane that first of all, put your mask on, then put it on your loved one. So first in communication, understand how to build your own right mindset, the right mindset as a caregiver, the right mindset as now somebody that leads this group called family. It's no longer just you and your wife. And you know, it's enough to have two people to have...

to people to have a dysfunctional family. It's just, it's not easy, right? But when you get more and more generations, it's becoming more complex.

Janet Engel (41:50)
or more people.

Danniel (41:52)
So it's getting more complex. So you gotta learn that side. And a big part of my books talk about how to create this effective communication, how to make sure that you know how to do a good conflict resolution, how to create boundaries that are not just physical boundaries, but.

Like mental boundaries. Mom will always be your mom. She always going to try to tell you, suggest something. But now it's a new game plan, right? It's not that you're not my mom, but you have to understand that in order to make sure that there is a clear separation between us, that we all feel comfortable, you cannot judge. And if you think that my wife is doing a horrific job with raising the kids,

This is not your job to tell me that even if you feel that way even if you think that way So again as a third party that comes to those families and explain that everybody understand and everybody are aligned And that is an example of a golden rule No judgment goes on the other side as well when my mom when I

parents in and obviously my mom suffered quite a lot for my dad it's not easy to be a caregiver and she had moments that she went crazy she want to struggle him because he would stand up and run to the kitchen and suddenly you know eat everything from the kitchen and drink a soap and she would be like you know losing it I would not come and say mom come on he's he has Alzheimer you got to understand it you should not judge him I

could not do that because that she would not feel comfortable in this in her space. So I would like mom I totally get it. I understand your frustration. You've been so much through it's been a very hard hard process for you. So you know just let me take care of the situation go to the living room. I'll be with them.

Janet Engel (43:53)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, give her a break when she needs it.

Danniel (43:56)
break with no judgment because the easiest thing for you as somebody that come refresh to the position I just show up now as a caregiver you know to come and say come on you know dismiss her or make her feel that she's an evil person and that she's not you know that she treats my dad that way but it's so natural right she's she's she's

She's not like me. She used to see this person. She lived with him for 50 years. He changed through her eyes. She's still in her head fights the fact that this is her husband. And why the hell you ask the...

Janet Engel (44:29)
And that this is her new reality too. That's hard to accept that now that husband -wife relationship has changed. Now it's a caregiver relationship and you know, it's just, it's very hard and some of us will have to go through that. So you're right, empathy.

Danniel (44:35)
So no judgment, right?

It is.

Unfortunately, lot of us will have to go through that. so the book is my story, the communication aspects of multi -generational, the blueprint aspect of how to create that separation to maximize it.

and some resources. And all of that leads to a course that I'm working these days that doing the same thing that kind of just, you know, many people don't like to read though. So the course would be another way to bring in those tools and eventually to give them the ability to think about this way of living if it makes sense to them. And if they do, I'll be more than privileged to be a support for them and helping them.

through this transition.

Janet Engel (45:43)
Well, thank you so much, Daniel. I am going to write your website or type in your website, the link and your LinkedIn link in the show notes as well as a link to your book. Is there a best way for people to reach you?

Danniel (46:02)
Yeah, mean, all my information is on multidashgen .com. It's my website.

They can find me in my channel in YouTube where there's the TEDx talks and some other podcasts and radio interviews. Probably gonna post our conversation there as well. So just reach out to me if you need any kind of support. You can email me, I can send you the book.

I can send you the ebook free of charge. I'll gladly do that. Just reach out to me so I can have your information and send you everything. This is truly things that came down from the heart.

Janet Engel (46:38)
well that's great.

All right, well, thank you so much. Thank you so much. It was such a great conversation. And thank you for sharing intimate details about your own life and your multi -generational experience. You know, it's not always glamorous. I told you I lived in a multi -generational home when I was growing up.

with my grandmother that was blind, legally blind, and my uncle that had been diagnosed with schizophrenia. And it was a small home and we only had one bathroom. So I relate to everything you're saying and how important it is to design your home.

for multi -generational living so that you can have a successful outcome such as your family has.

Danniel (47:47)
Absolutely. you're, yeah, you shared with me the story. It's crazy. And again, with all those challenges, you have sweet memories and a lot of cherished moments from that, from these times with all the challenges. So imagine if you can remove...

Janet Engel (48:03)
more. Not my mother. My mother doesn't.

Danniel (48:10)
Well, you know, the kids is what important, right? But that's the point, the point that if separation is there and help is given, then this experience can be a really positive one. But there is no doubt that many people are not lucky enough to, you know, utilize equity and their illness.

Janet Engel (48:31)
Yeah, and live in a 3 ,600 square foot space and all of these other factors. But yeah, that's why designing the home for multi -generational living and building ADUs are all great options. But thank you so much, Daniel, and look forward to having you again.

Danniel (48:54)
Thank you.

Thank you, appreciate it.