Making Homes Accessible for Everyone

Summary

In this conversation, Janet Engel interviews Jamal Stevenson, the key sales officer at We Hear You, a company that started as a sign language translation service and has evolved into creating innovative accessibility solutions.

The focus is on their latest product, the Hero Door Opener, which aims to make any door automatic and accessible for individuals with mobility issues, aging populations, and those with full hands.

Jamal discusses the technology behind the Hero Door Opener, its features, and future developments, including partnerships for smart lock systems.

The conversation emphasizes the importance of universal design and community engagement in making homes more accessible.

Takeaways

We Hear You started as a sign language company in 2017.

The Hero Door Opener allows any door to become automatic.

Accessibility solutions benefit not just individuals with disabilities but everyone.

The push app integrates voice activation for ease of use.

Future developments include a vibration system for low vision individuals.

Testing opportunities are available for community engagement.

The goal is to make accessibility affordable and portable.

Universal design is crucial for homes to accommodate all ages and abilities.

The Hero Door Opener is designed to be easy to install and use.

We Hear You is focused on making a real impact in the community.

Sound Bites

"We created a receiver that retrofits into existing doors."

"This is a common struggle for just a regular door."

"We are developing a vibration system for low vision individuals."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to We Hear You and Its Origins

02:08 The Hero Door Opener: Revolutionizing Accessibility

04:47 Innovative Features of the Hero Door Opener

13:05 Expanding Accessibility: Future Developments

22:05 Testing Opportunities and Community Engagement

26:40 The Importance of Universal Design in Homes

Transcript

Janet Engel (00:01.676)
Hello everyone and thank you for being with me today. My guest is Jamal Stevenson and he is the key sales officer at We Hear You. I invited Jamal because he is working for a company that really started back in 2017 and in a different area. Now they focus on door openers.

But Jamal, tell us about how we hear you started.

Jamal Stevenson (00:33.858)
Yeah, well, so first and foremost, Janet, thank you for having me. Glad to be here and talk a little bit about where we started and where we are right now. We Hear You started as a sign language company, actually. Around 2017 is when we had the idea, our CEO and founder, Pierre Paul, who graciously had a dream, walked into a McDonald's and he only knew sign language and wasn't able to communicate his favorite order to the cashier. So in his dream, he wasn't able to communicate.

woke up from it and then just had this really cool idea to invent a translator. What he invented was one of the first commercially available translators that allows individuals to use sign language to communicate in real time to live speech and then live speech back to sign language in real time. And that all came into fruition in 2018 and 2019 was when it was launched.

That's why we've been able to do some really cool things in the space with Air Emirates and other companies. And we're finishing off a pilot, pardon me right now, with Ameren Illinois, which is an electric company here in the Midwest that is pretty big. So we're excited about that. And yeah, we started there as we transitioned into where we are now, which is the door hardware stuff. We are actually being acquired by

an entity that is not public knowledge until the end of this year. So I'll be excited to share that with the next couple of weeks.

Janet Engel (02:08.71)
Okay, well great. How does the Hero door opener work and what makes it different from other traditional automatic door systems that are in the market?

Jamal Stevenson (02:21.57)
Yeah, great question. So the hero door opener is something that allows any door to become an automatic door. And so the problem we identified was with existing automatic doors, hitting that button, maneuvering around the swing of the door and then through the door within seven to 12 seconds is extremely difficult, especially if you have mobility issues, especially if you're aging, especially if you have an injury or especially if your hands are just full.

I think we've all been in a position which is difficult to get through the door. And we created a receiver originally that retrofits into those existing doors. And so that with that receiver in that door, we also had a file in our app that allows the user to open the door from a safe distance, which would be 20 feet away. And so stemming from that, the hero door opener came into play as we went to market and

We put it out to the community and one of our team members with project originally we have a button to fit

Janet Engel (03:31.68)
Say that again, Jamal.

Jamal Stevenson (03:34.115)
Sorry about that, received a call. Yes, so we retrofitted originally a button to fit on her headrest. And as you would think, that would eventually get tiring, of trying to open the door. And so we invented the app, is an active, which is a utilize this voice activation. We put it out to market. They said, this is great for doors that are automatic, but what about doors that aren't? And so therefore we created the hero door opener and

Really what makes it different is right now it costs about $10,000 to hardwire an electric door into a location. First and foremost, this is not feasible for small businesses, and let alone why would it be feasible for individuals? And so that was one of the main things that we took into account when we designed it was to make it portable. Have a plug-in and also have a battery backup. That way you can utilize it.

anywhere you can, you can, it only takes two screws to put up so you can take it up, you can put it up and then take it down and plug it in and plug it out wherever you need to go.

Janet Engel (04:47.08)
Okay, and what about the push app feature that integrates with the hero door opener? How does that work?

Jamal Stevenson (04:55.425)
Yeah. So the push app is something that is really cool and super simple. We were able to leverage Bluetooth to make a stronger connection and do a little more with technology. And so we've been able to activate or incorporate voice activation. So where you can say, Siri, hey Google, hey Gemini, open the door. And so I have my phone, I'm on my phone, but it's a simple app that's available on the Google app store, on the Apple Play store.

It's a free app and along with the app embedded into it is a map. So on the map, you will see other locations that also have our push technology. The excited thing about it is right now we have, I know for a fact two pings. We're scheduled to have about 14 more pings in the next two weeks as we just delivered to some of our locations last week, which we're excited about.

Janet Engel (05:50.261)
So explain to me if I wanted this feature in my house, how would I do that?

Jamal Stevenson (05:59.351)
Yeah, simple as that. One, right now with the Hero Door Opener, we're allowing individuals to pre-order it. And those individuals who pre-order would be a part of our testing period. Right now we're going through a heavy testing phase within October and mid-November. Before we fully release this to the public, that testing period is simply be, you order it for a discounted price right now that's on our website. And when you order it, we'll deliver it to you.

Once you have it, it weighs about 20 pounds and it takes about two screws to just screw on top of the door. Once you have that, it'll come with instructions that also come with a visual that'll teach you how to install it, an installation manual. Let's say you have a physical disability or you're just unable to install it yourself, then let us know. We also have a team that is skilled.

that is available to come and install it in that region as well. And so we'll start like that. Once you guys have it installed, once the users have it installed at their location, we'll take about six to eight weeks to go through a testing period to see the user experience. And then we'll bring it back in-house, we'll tweak it, and then we'll release it.

Janet Engel (07:17.834)
Okay, interesting. I was at a show house this weekend and it was this very modern home. It was gorgeous. And it had this extremely large door. It looked like the door to a hotel lobby. And it had, you know, what looked like a grab bar all along the length of it, which was the handle.

Jamal Stevenson (07:37.154)
Mm-hmm.

Jamal Stevenson (07:43.863)
Yes, ma'am.

Janet Engel (07:46.43)
And it was so heavy. I had to lean into it to get the door to open. And my first thought was, boy, this is impossible. You don't have to be an older person or a person with a disability to have a hard time. If I were holding groceries, I would have never been able to open that door. I would have had to put everything down.

So that would, your technology would be a perfect solution to this.

Jamal Stevenson (08:19.863)
Yeah, yeah, and it's funny you mentioned that, Janet. We call that the Chipotle door effect. so Chipotle is, right? Chipotle, it's so funny, but it's such a pain, right? They're infamous for their doors, their doors being glass and heavy and super strong, like you gotta be Thor to get inside of it. And that was kind of what we had in mind. As we kind of have this able-bodied individuals,

Janet Engel (08:42.532)
huh.

Jamal Stevenson (08:49.281)
have that struggle of getting into those types of doors. This is a common struggle for just a regular door for somebody that has mobility issues, right, or aging, or just has their hands full. And so when it came to actually designing the Hero Door Opener, we started with a bigger MVP, minimal viable product. So it was about the length of my forearm is what we started with, my forearm. And...

We realized that we could shrink this down to make it more feasible for individuals to carry and still have the same torque to open those heavy Chipotle doors. And we got it shrunk down and we got it down to the size that we liked to where it it still kept the integrity of how much force we wanted to put on it. So the thought is there, right? You hit the nail on the head. We designed this with those heavy doors in mind of like, this is a struggle to get into. What about places like these?

So yes, yes, great observation.

Janet Engel (09:50.122)
And I would think as time goes by and you know, these doors are beautiful. imagine they're, I really have no idea why they make them that heavy. If it's the technology in it, maybe they're hurricane proof or something about the door. Do you know why are these doors so, so heavy?

Jamal Stevenson (10:17.251)
My educated guess, and if you talk to an engineer of sort, it might be completely off, but my educated guess would be this thing called stack pressure and stack pressure. And so what you see when it comes to these swing doors is for some organizations, some companies and restaurants, they're losing, they're losing money essentially.

Janet Engel (10:32.224)
Okay.

Jamal Stevenson (10:46.659)
because of the air pressure that's actuating in between. And so it's something with, yeah, my educated guess, which is completely probably wrong, right? If you talk to an engineer, would be something with a stag and stag pressure.

Janet Engel (10:47.179)
Right.

Janet Engel (10:58.612)
It sounds pretty good to me.

Jamal Stevenson (11:02.76)
That's yes, yes. And so, but still a problem nonetheless. And that would kind of alleviate some of that pressure if it's automated a little bit, right? And so that's kind of where our heads are with that.

Janet Engel (11:17.628)
Okay. Well, I would think these doors may become more popular over time, especially in higher end homes. so a technology like yours would be useful because, mean, really, it's not sustainable to age in place and have a door that is so incredibly difficult to open. I think I saw this movie where it was a

the same situation where it was this woman that worked for this movie star and she was going into his house and she had to put everything down and then use all of her might to get the door open. That was what I thought about this weekend when I was, when all of us were trying to open this door because it was a group of women and we all struggled with it.

Jamal Stevenson (12:01.996)
Yeah.

Jamal Stevenson (12:12.939)
Yeah, it's such a pain point. I think that's kind of why it's so great. It's because it's not just for individuals with disabilities, right? It's really, truly, we've all been there. We've all been there where you just simply cannot access the door. Even when the existing automatic doors exist, there's always something that kind of puts it as an inconvenience, right? That the button's too small or the wall button's in an awkward place or the actual door doesn't work, right?

It just makes it 10 times harder to actually get inside the building. so yes, yes and, right? Yes and this is something that helps on a broader scale and a broader spectrum than what our primary focus, which is individuals with disabilities is. It goes beyond that. And so we're excited to kind of take that as it comes.

Janet Engel (13:05.088)
Are there additional features of the hero door opener that specifically cater to the needs of older adults? Or we could also be talking about people with young children that have a lot going on, have a lot that they're responsible for.

Jamal Stevenson (13:24.673)
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a great question. I believe right now we are developing. We're developing one thing, one thing's in a pipeline and another thing we're still waiting on. some more meetings to happen to get deeper into the mechanics of everything. The first thing is we are developing a vibration system that works with our app. So individuals that have low vision or are blind can, they'll, they'll, they'll have,

to have some knowledge of the distance of where the door is and what capabilities the door has based off of our vibrational pattern. So that would be within the next coming months, that would be something that would be extremely beneficial, like I said, for individuals with low vision and blind, my dad's blind, and so he's super excited about that as he can attach our push device to his white cane.

And so that'd just be even more helpful with gaining that accessibility and autonomy. The second thing is we are working with another startup company that has been in existence for a few years, and they're doing some amazing things on the lock system, basically having access control when it comes to locking the door. And so this is beneficial, as you know, when it comes to residential spaces, when it comes to hospitality spaces like hotels and such, right?

Getting the door to open is one thing, but getting it to lock and unlock is a whole different thing. And so we are working on some integration system where not only can you open the door, but you can unlock the door and then allow that door to open and then close that door behind you and unlock it behind you. So the benefit for this in the residential community, for individuals that age in place, for individuals that have children, to have some type of user access control and autonomy, that would be huge within the next coming.

within the next coming years, right? So we're happy to break into that space early and get ahead of the game.

Janet Engel (15:25.804)
Will it be We Hear You that develops that smart lock system or does your company plan to partner with a company that already has that technology?

Jamal Stevenson (15:36.973)
Yeah.

Great question. So I'll go ahead and name drop the company actually, because they're on the market. The company is called Proxess. P-R-O-X-E-S-S. P-R-O-X-C-E-S-S. And I might have misspelt that. But P-R-O-X-E-S-S. So they specialize in automatic locks. And you have a user access control. And what makes them different and really cool and what makes this partnership kind of viable.

Janet Engel (15:58.113)
Okay.

Jamal Stevenson (16:09.771)
is as we are changing the game with hard wiring, we're taking away that hard wiring aspect and making it portable, they're doing the same thing with their lock system. And so right now, you want to have current automated locks, basically, it's hard wired through an electrical system that's existing throughout the building. So they alleviate that issue and they make theirs portable as well.

So of course, naturally our integration would just kind of make sense. So some things to work on on the back end, of course, to make that possible. But we are in talks of doing that and into some communications with that. So that'd be beautiful.

Janet Engel (16:52.3)
Does making it portable also make it more affordable?

Jamal Stevenson (16:58.219)
Yes, yes indeed. did not touch on that, but that's exactly where, we kind of describe it as a triangle, It's financially, it's much more affordable because logistically, you don't have to hard wire, which makes it physically more accessible. So we went up from the ground up. now, because logistically, we don't have to hard wire, right? That's what makes it more affordable. And so with the Hero door opener,

we're looking at more of a fraction of the cost, a third or fourth of the cost of $10,000, it'd be $1,500, right? And that's why our selling point right now, same thing with price test in their automatic lock systems, that also cuts their price down by a lot, which is definitely attractive to consumers.

Janet Engel (17:50.802)
Do you have a sample that you can show us today?

Jamal Stevenson (17:57.869)
for the hero.

Janet Engel (18:00.062)
Mm-hmm.

Jamal Stevenson (18:01.763)
Yes, I can. I can show you. Let's see here.

I gotta pull it up.

I'll show you.

Janet Engel (18:20.076)
Are you able to share this screen? Do you see those on the bottom where you have the options to share?

Jamal Stevenson (18:29.933)
Let's see here. I'm on my phone, so it might be a little different for me. see mute speaker.

Janet Engel (18:33.958)
Okay, well it's from Riverside and I just don't know if you see the same thing I see from this studio, your view. Well, we can include a link in the show notes and then we can show people what it looks like.

Jamal Stevenson (18:45.469)
I don't believe so.

Jamal Stevenson (18:54.698)
Yes, let me...

Jamal Stevenson (18:59.491)
I want to try to get a video in action, I'll at least pull up the product page. Let's see here.

Janet Engel (19:15.276)
When it comes to this product, you said it was about $1,500. Does that also include installation or that's $1,500 to purchase the product?

Jamal Stevenson (19:29.101)
Great question, Janet. So right now that price point is just for purchasing the product. And we are working as we roll this out and continue to get it into a testing period. are looking to, we have our own technical door installers, basically. They're not technicians, they're not electrical technicians, but they're door technicians. And so they're certified. So we do have our own in-house team.

that will provide that assistance, that installation assistance for a fee. We're still trying to work that out and include it into the purchasing price or whether to tack it on as another fee or whether just to make it free as a courteous. So we are figuring that out, but yes, that is the goal to have an internal team that also facilitates some installations for those who need help as well.

Janet Engel (20:24.524)
Are there any limits to the types of doors that it can be used on? Or any requirements for that specific entrance?

Jamal Stevenson (20:33.503)
No, so...

Yes, so great question. Right now we found no limits thus far on the types of doors that this can be used on. So we tested this out. We tested the first model out with some duct tape on Pierre's apartment door, which is a standard regular apartment door. And then we tested once we had the final product, we tested it on a super, super, super janky door and it opened the door and kept the integrity of the door, vice versa.

We had another door company that we're in future partnership with. We had them tested on a heavier set of doors as well. So the variety of doors that this works on is many. The only thing is this is really for swing door options. And so as far as sliding doors, we're still looking to develop more products that deal with that type of sliding action.

Janet Engel (21:36.34)
Uh-huh.

Janet Engel (21:39.89)
Yes, which requires more strength, the sliding glass door, especially if you're in a seated position, you have to have more strength to be able to slide that door open.

Jamal Stevenson (21:51.489)
Yes.

Janet Engel (21:53.162)
What other innovative accessibility solutions is WeHearYou working on that could benefit older adults?

Jamal Stevenson (22:05.377)
Yes, so I'm trying to bring this up, but I cannot find a good link. I had it on my phone. Yeah, okay. No worries, start like that.

Janet Engel (22:09.61)
I don't think you'll be able to.

Janet Engel (22:14.444)
But I can share the link in the show notes.

Jamal Stevenson (22:20.705)
Okay, so if I can send it to you via email, then you should be able to...

Janet Engel (22:25.92)
Yes.

Jamal Stevenson (22:27.831)
Okay, perfect. I will send that to you. Yeah, so the question was what other products are we working on for individuals with disabilities or the aging population? Right now, I honestly would say we're focused on the Hero DuraOperator so far. I know we do have a little bit of ideas in a pipeline that will probably be showcased within 2026 or so.

Janet Engel (22:40.236)
Mm-hmm.

Jamal Stevenson (22:56.419)
that probably bring it to fruition. really we are, we are, we are truly focused on getting this out to the community to where it actually is, to where it actually makes a real impact. Right. And so we don't want to rush through this necessarily, this product, the hero door opener. want to make it good. We want to tweak it to the best of our ability. We want to get it out to various industries, to senior living facilities, to places like we started on our Bradley university campus. So.

educational institutions. want to get it in small businesses and residential homes and hotels, right? We really want to roll this out. And even if it's a slow roll, we know that taking our time with it will be good and beneficial for the community. Right. and so yeah, we're in no rush. We're in no rush. We have some ideas that are, we're kind of paying it off each other internally, but, our focus is really making it here real accessible, and equitable and affordable for everybody. And just to sustain, that route for awhile.

Janet Engel (23:57.588)
You said that we hear you as looking for testing opportunities. Can people write to your company and request to test your product?

Jamal Stevenson (24:10.243)
Yes, yes, yes, that is a great point, Janet. We would love to. As simple as going to wehearyouopenstores.com. We have e-commerce on there to where you can order it. And right now, if you order it, then that'd be a pre-order for the Hero Door Opener. That'd be an actual order for the receiver. I want to stress, pardon me, want to stress, do not order the receivers if you do not have an existing automatic door.

that only is for the existing automatic doors. The hero door opener is to make any door automatic. And so if you are interested in testing that before we roll it out to the open market, then send us an email. There's an email link on there, or you can email me personally at jamal at wehearyouasl.com and just let me know you want to test it. We'll get you all set up to go for testing and yeah.

Janet Engel (24:40.214)
Okay.

Jamal Stevenson (25:06.615)
we'll be communication with that. But simple as that. And if you want to order it to pre-order it, then we will have the option as well.

Janet Engel (25:15.66)
Well, that's wonderful. So if someone were interested in testing the product, would that be free of charge?

Jamal Stevenson (25:25.059)
Possibly we could talk about it. I know that we want to do limited testing options and so our testing pool right now we are based in mid. I guess this is not even just in Missouri. This is the Midwest, so we're based off out of Saint Louis, Chicago and Peoria. Then we travel around elsewhere and whatnot, but yeah, we would love to. We would love to get it out there at a even more discounted areas for us.

making the money is on the back end as far as actually making the impact. And so if that means that we have a testing pool that is open and testing our product and giving us real feedback, then we could definitely accommodate them on the financial front to make sure that it's feasible for everybody.

Janet Engel (26:13.574)
well, that would be great. I think that you have many people that would be interested in testing it or recommend someone that could test it for you. Well, that's wonderful and very exciting because doors do present a big problem when it comes to accessibility, not just opening the door, but you know what that

Jamal Stevenson (26:21.837)
Yes.

Jamal Stevenson (26:36.087)
Yes, ma'am.

Janet Engel (26:40.33)
that space that the door swings into, especially in the bathroom, is an issue. and that's another question I wanted to ask you. What about using this for interior doors?

Jamal Stevenson (26:45.667)
Mm-hmm.

Jamal Stevenson (26:53.431)
Yeah, so that is one of the main reasons why we developed this as well, right? Commercially, this is great, but this works for one thing that we've seen is that once you get inside the door from once you get inside the location, right from those external doors, there's still trouble with the internal doors, right? The bathrooms, the conference rooms, then for residential spaces, right? We see the bathrooms again. We see the closet doors, right? We see the bedroom doors. So this is the perfect alternative and solution.

to make those doors automatic as well.

Janet Engel (27:26.44)
that's great. So you can use it for every door in your house.

Jamal Stevenson (27:32.543)
Every door that is no cap that is true to its wording, we truly thought about, we tested this from a janky door, a little door that was barely wooden, that was missing some pieces to make sure that it wouldn't break, right, up until doors that really weigh are like those Chipotle doors that are just way too heavy to be a door. And it works well. And so the design is really to make the installation easy, right, to not

not mess with the integrity of the location you're trying to install it to. But just makes it easy. Two screws and bada boom it is. It sits on the door and with those two screws as support to how any hinge is, you will see that the door upholds it. so it's physics that are kind of beyond me, but it holds its own weight, which is great.

Janet Engel (28:29.58)
Now you had mentioned a price tag of $1,500 for this product. If I wanted to include this product, let's say four doors in my house, would that be four times 1,500?

Jamal Stevenson (28:47.565)
Correct, and so ideally when it comes to buying in bulk, what we want to do is give you guys a discount, right? So be able to respect that, you know, they're purchasing our hair door opener along with some attachments. Maybe we have some cool t-shirts or some bags or something like that that a consumer can purchase as well. And so yeah, ideally is that we would want to return a favor and give you guys a discount, right? The goal is not to be, to not make crazy amounts of money off this.

is of course we want to run a business, but we want to do it with the integrity of, this doesn't have to be expensive. You know, we want to stay away from that world entirely. So accessibility does not have to be hard or expensive and we want to remain as inexpensive as possible. So yeah, we throw some deals out that way, of course.

Janet Engel (29:35.084)
Do you think that this technology will ever be at the point where, for example, with motion sensor lighting, this company, Rishaloo, they make motion sensor lighting where you have a receiver and that one or a sensor and that sensor will communicate to other sensors. And so you don't have to have that same technology.

repeated everywhere because the technology is smart enough to communicate with an entire system. Do you see that transitioning this technology transitioning to something like that where one door opener can then communicate with some kind of smaller unit that is less expensive to create but can be placed on multiple doors in the house?

Jamal Stevenson (30:33.569)
Yeah, I think if I'm understanding your question correctly, when we think about smart technology, you're asking if there is a world where we create a home base, basically, and then other smart hardware that just reacts to that home base, right? Okay.

Janet Engel (30:52.496)
Mm-hmm. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying in my very uneducated engineer terms.

Jamal Stevenson (30:59.497)
No,

Janet Engel (31:04.204)
you

Jamal Stevenson (31:27.843)
and as technology becomes more available to us and its advancements, it eventually would operate as a Google Home base or an Alexa Home base and then have other attachments or other constituents that react to it. And so what I would think is, correct, we would create a base system and then we would create little attachments that you, that little accessible attachments, however,

little heads come together and think about these things, I mean, utilize the community to do so. To think about other in-home needs that would be beneficial for the aging population, for individuals with disabilities, for kids that are growing, right? And just for all these different walks of life, I think that there is definitely a future in making some smart technology base and then having that be like a dwelling for the whole home.

Right? So yes, yeah, that's right on the money. And I think it's where AI is going and where quantum physics is going and how we see universal design and accessible design starting to take an imprint on society. think that we're going to get there within the next 10 to 15 years efficiently. Right. I think people are starting to poke their noses in.

but I see this definitely being a home where I'm aging in, right? And so that's exactly where our head is headed.

Janet Engel (33:03.552)
Okay, well great, because that would make it so much more affordable and utilitarian for the entire house. So I do really would love to have that option because doors do present such an issue, an accessibility issue for people. You know, the handle that you use, the door swing.

Jamal Stevenson (33:08.643)
We'll you

Jamal Stevenson (33:12.256)
Yes.

Jamal Stevenson (33:28.375)
Yes.

Janet Engel (33:32.82)
the size of the door. It just presents so many problems for people to access another space.

Jamal Stevenson (33:39.735)
Yes.

Jamal Stevenson (33:43.127)
Yeah, that's something that a lot of people don't think about is when it comes to the door itself, the handle, right? So many knobs. The apartment complex I'm in right now, it has so many knobs. The apartment complex I'm in right now doesn't have an exit strategy for individuals with wheelchairs or the aging population if they're on the 15th floor, right? And there's a fire that breaks out and they can't utilize the elevator. So they have to climb down 15 flights of stairs or have to wait until

firefighters come in and rescue them, it's not very feasible. And when we start to actually think about some of these life scenarios that we can be put in at given time of the day, because nobody's excused from life, right? I think we forget of how serious these and how real these things can be. And it's up to us to really have a focus on how we can start.

breaking down of what we've built up and actually start building more inclusively, accessibly, and more affordably, right? All these things are possible. We just need to start, you know? We need to start, we need to unlearn what we've been taught, we need to unlearn what we've done. And it's costly, yes, but we're also, so I think about it, like web accessibility, how many people are being sued for their websites not being accessible, and it's...

these little things could have been avoided, right? And now you have the influx of, you know, web accessible people that are doing all these great things to help people out. So, yeah.

Janet Engel (35:20.402)
I think we lost you Jamal. Okay, we got you again. But yes, so many things that we can do to make the home universally designed so that people of different ages, different abilities can use their home and use their entire home. It seems like we're having some internet issues. I'm I get you come and go.

Jamal Stevenson (35:26.723)
There it is, yes.

Janet Engel (35:47.708)
But Jamal, it was great having you on the show and I will include all of the links that you will provide me with and also your email so that if someone, especially if someone is interested in testing the product where they can either get it at a discounted price or perhaps comped. But thank you so much for educating us.

Jamal Stevenson (35:58.476)
Yes.

Jamal Stevenson (36:17.761)
Yes, thank you, Janet, for having me. I'm so sorry for the connectivity issues, but it was such a great joy talking to you. And yes, if anybody wants to connect with me, I'll leave all of my information for Janet to share.

Janet Engel (36:31.615)
All right, thank you.

Jamal Stevenson (36:34.679)
Thank you.

Janet Engel (36:39.062)
Jamal, are you there?