What do Baby Boomers Really Want in a Senior Living Community? The Answer Could Surprise You

Summary

In this conversation, Janet Engel and Jeff Weiss, President & CEO of Age of Majority, discuss the evolving expectations of Baby Boomers regarding senior living communities, emphasizing the importance of food quality, autonomy, and the role of technology.

They explore the challenges these communities face in meeting the diverse needs of older adults while addressing misconceptions about aging and technology use.

In this conversation, Janet Engel and Jeff Weiss explore the evolving landscape of aging, technology, and senior living.

They debunk myths surrounding older adults and technology, emphasizing that many are tech-savvy and engaged online.

The discussion shifts to the impact of COVID-19 on senior living communities, highlighting both the challenges and adaptations that have occurred.

They also discuss innovations in senior living, including the importance of user-friendly technology and the need for communities to cater to health and accessibility.

Finally, they envision future living arrangements that focus on shared interests and community engagement, aiming to enhance the quality of life for older adults.

Takeaways

Older adults are more focused on health and wellness than previous generations.

Food quality and variety are critical factors for Baby Boomers when choosing senior living communities.

Many older adults want to remain productive and engaged in their communities.

Perceptions of senior living often lean towards negative stereotypes.

A significant percentage of Baby Boomers prefer to age in place rather than move to a community.

Independence and autonomy are paramount for older adults considering senior living.

Technology can enhance the lives of older adults and should be embraced by communities.

There is a gap between the perceptions of senior living operators and potential residents.

Communities must offer more than just basic living arrangements to attract residents.

Baby Boomers are generally comfortable with technology and use it to enhance their lives. Older adults are often more technologically advanced than younger generations.

Technology must serve a practical purpose to be adopted by older adults.

User-friendly design is crucial for technology aimed at older adults.

Designing for older adults can benefit users of all ages.

Age-related vision changes begin around age 40, not 75.

COVID-19 has negatively impacted perceptions of senior living communities.

Air quality and lighting are critical factors in senior living design.

Communities should focus on health and safety, not just accessibility.

Changing the narrative around aging can improve quality of life.

Interest-based communities can enhance social connections for seniors.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background
05:58 The Importance of Food Quality in Senior Living
12:12 Perceptions of Senior Living Communities
18:14 Independence and Autonomy in Senior Living
24:12 Misconceptions About Older Adults and Technology
30:40 Debunking Myths of Aging and Technology
36:49 The Impact of COVID-19 on Senior Living
42:43 Innovations in Senior Living Communities
48:00 Creating Interest-Based Communities for Seniors

Transcript

Janet Engel (00:01.538)
Hello everyone and thank you for being with me today. I have a guest that I've had a couple of times. I'm sure many of you on LinkedIn will recognize him. His name is Jeff Weiss and he is the CEO and founder of Age of Majority. Jeff, I'm so happy to have you here again today.

Jeff Weiss (00:21.556)
Janet, thank you for inviting me. I always enjoy being on your show. So really looking forward to today's discussion as well.

Janet Engel (00:26.978)
And I want to tell our guests that last time you were on the show, which I think may have been around this time last year, you can correct me, but it was just a few weeks after you had given a TEDx talk in South Carolina.

Jeff Weiss (00:48.696)
Good memory, good memory. Yeah, was in, yeah, I gave it, it was November of 2023 in Hilton Head, so good memory.

Janet Engel (00:50.272)
with it this time last year.

Janet Engel (00:57.79)
It, yeah. And I loved that talk. It was so funny. I thought you did a great job. And I had many comments after I published our episode, how much they enjoyed watching your TEDx talk. So I always love having you on. And I invited you on today because you recently featured an article in your newsletter.

Jeff Weiss (01:14.872)
Great, thank you.

Janet Engel (01:26.738)
that talked about research that tells us what baby boomers are basing their decisions on as to where they live and whether they choose to live in senior living communities. And I was surprised by the research. So I want you to go ahead and introduce it.

Jeff Weiss (01:52.024)
Sure, so we did this research on behalf of one of our clients. It's a new company actually called Restora, R-E-S-T-A-U-R-A. And fortunately they said, hey, Jeff, we want you to spread the news even though it's proprietary research. And they're kind of a new company. Their background is in like in senior communities and in food service specifically. They're really focused on food and dining management services for senior living.

residences and for adult communities. And they're really trying to kind of raise the bar and set new levels of excellence for these communities. So as we'll talk about in this session, you know, food and dining options, quality food source of ingredients, technology customization based on on people's needs. And this kind of, think, you know, a move from, you know, it used to be very much kind of, you know, I eat to live and now particularly for older adults, it's like I kind of live to eat and how important food is for any people. So

Thanks to Restora for kind of getting us to do the research and that's what I'm going to talk about today.

Janet Engel (02:57.472)
Well great and I'm really looking forward to hearing it. So tell us how are Baby Boomer's expectations different from other generations that came prior to them?

Jeff Weiss (03:15.202)
Yeah, no, good starting questions. And I think, you today, and I'm sure you see it, I see it, older adults are much more focused on their overall health and wellness. And that's both physical and mental compared to older generations, whether it's parents or grandparents, more aspirational, generally want to get more out of life as they get older versus kind of the old, I'll call it the rocking chair mentality, right? Very stereotypical where, you know, people...

you know, kind of life expectancy was lower and people retired, you know, 65. And then you didn't have that many more years in general to live. So was just, you know, kind of live it out, you know, quietly. And I think those expectations have changed. And people are much more kind of aspirational or outlook. And one of the questions we asked in our research, we gave people different definitions, kind of personas. And, but a third of our respondents, there were over a thousand older adults,

call themselves age or thought themselves as ageless wonders. And I'll just read the definition, trying to be as proactive as possible to stay healthy and feel great so I can keep doing the things I want to do for as long as possible, right? So very different, think, excuse me, than what we would have seen or found in older generations where it was more about taking it easy. And we know that older adults now want to try new things and experiences. We've done lots of research and that continued us to grow.

Janet Engel (04:17.058)
you

Jeff Weiss (04:40.984)
They want to remain productive. That means that some people want to keep working, partly financially, but partly just, you know, they love doing it or they want to try something new. They like to volunteer as they get older, give back to the community. And then purpose is something that's really critical as well as his relationships with family and friends. So I think expectations are, you know, I want to be able to get more of that out of kind of where I'm going to live in this near living community than I did before.

Janet Engel (05:08.514)
And lately we've been hearing a lot about the U-curve of happiness and it really has made me think about my own life even though I'm middle-aged. I do think I was the happiest when I was a very young child and as I'm getting older I get happier. I think that

Jeff Weiss (05:14.435)
Yes.

Jeff Weiss (05:32.856)
Yes.

Janet Engel (05:33.954)
In my 30s, especially I would say in my 20s and 30s even though you have youth on your side You're also starting out, you know, you have all these internal struggles you're not quite sure who you are your place in society and it's It's to me. It was always like striving for something and then when I get

when I would get there, I didn't enjoy it because now I was striving for something else. And I feel like now I'm finally at a place where I'm starting to get out of that. So I think in 20 years, I'll be super, super happy.

Jeff Weiss (06:04.568)
Yes.

Jeff Weiss (06:10.926)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that gets back to my TEDx talk where it's like, you know, people are generally happier. think 49, I'm not sure how old you are, Janet. I think 49 is okay.

Janet Engel (06:23.49)
46. I'm 47. I turned 47 in January.

Jeff Weiss (06:28.842)
Okay, well happy upcoming birthday. So you've got another couple of years though before you hit the bottom of that U curve, right? But it's just, you know, there's so many pressures and stresses. You're, you know, generally people are comparing themselves to their friends, to society. And you know, you've got all these, you know, I know you've got kids and it's just all the stuff I know. I call it parental trauma, not childhood trauma, it's parental trauma, right? I'm write a book on that with my wife. And...

Janet Engel (06:34.922)
Okay.

Jeff Weiss (06:56.482)
So a lot of that just kind of changes over time. But you have to actively make choices because it's not gonna happen naturally,

Janet Engel (07:05.97)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a great point. So tell us about how your article, it highlights concerns about baby boomers talking about cafeteria style food, which I still have that in my head when I was in elementary and middle school and was forced to eat cafeteria food. So how are these senior living communities that are trying to be innovative

Jeff Weiss (07:24.995)
Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (07:29.176)
Yeah, yeah.

Janet Engel (07:35.99)
How are they dealing with this challenge?

Jeff Weiss (07:42.09)
Yeah, well, you know, food, food quality and variety in our research like that is so important. You know, you get to when you're thinking about moving into a community, you know, there's the actual facility, there's amenities, all that kind of stuff. But food quality and variety, different options are very important to older adults, particularly when thinking about, you know, a senior living community. And our research showed that we know that it's important for the boomers or the Gen X now are kind of over 55.

Their perception is that they don't have a lot of confidence that senior communities can actually deliver when it comes to the food quality, variety and dining options experiences. you know, that could be, you know, we know that people sometimes just want to eat alone, whether it's alone or with their partner or spouse, whatever. Sometimes they want to eat with different people, but they just want to have different options. And they don't believe currently that senior living communities can do that. So.

And, you know, food is such an important part of someone's life, particularly in these communities where potentially you don't have as much going on and food becomes that much important in your life, right? And I think back to, you know, university days where, you know, you came down for your meals and that was your main congregating place. You have lots going on, but it was still important. It's even more important in these senior living communities because so much time is spent there. So there's this real desire

to have kind of really good food quality. A lot of people have their own kind of personal considerations, whether it be less salt, more fiber, more protein, whatever. A lot of people are still very adventurous. They wanna try new things. And there's this belief that there's this cafeteria style food in these communities, and it's gonna be pretty bland, right? And so it's...

I think it's really important. you know, so for a company like Restore who's dealing with these communities to try to get them to really up their game. I, you know, think about my mother who's 94 and she was living on her own. And finally she sold her condo right before COVID, which is good, but also bad. We can talk about that. And I remember taking you around to different places and, know, they're all nice places, but food was such an important part. And I think for these communities,

Jeff Weiss (10:03.33)
You know, they kind of look at food as like it's a cost, right? How do I reduce the cost of food, but still kind of offer things? you know, food is such an important part of people's lives, particularly when they're making decisions about where to live. And when they're in their community, how happy they are. And you know, if you can give someone a good food experience while they're doing a tour of that community, that could go such a long way to getting someone to move in, not only that residence, but move in at an earlier stage, right? And when they're in there to keep them happy or so.

I think communities are starting to kind of really understand this better and looking at how do they meet their needs of older adults as it becomes more important.

Janet Engel (10:42.37)
And I can see how it gets, it can get very complicated because you have preferences for food, but then you also have limitations that are set forth by medications that you may be taking. For example, I know that there are heart medications where you can't consume grapefruit or grapefruit juice. So that's one, or if you're gluten intolerant,

or my mother-in-law for example, has issues with her colon and she's had diverticulitis a few times and so she can't eat anything with seeds and so that really makes it complicated or you know, let's say you have diabetes and you really shouldn't be eating a lot of carbs.

not only is it bad for your diabetes, but then you're also gonna be lethargic afterwards. Yeah, it really can get really complicated.

Jeff Weiss (11:38.838)
Yeah, exactly.

Jeff Weiss (11:44.078)
Yeah, so you think about, you know, kind of a regular restaurant, you know, do you have any food allergies, blah, blah, blah, and they deal with that, right? And you're still going to get hopefully a really high quality meal. think that's the expectation of people moving into these communities that even if they have certain dietary restrictions and many people do, that's not going to mean I'm going to have bland food while everyone else is enjoying something that's really good that I can't eat because of whatever my intolerance is or my special needs. So I just think, you know,

expectations are a lot higher than what they used to be. And it's just a challenge for these communities. And to get the chefs to work there, like, where do you want to work in a senior living community? Or do you want to work at a high end restaurant? And then also just kind of just the whole, everything goes into being able to meet people's needs and still providing high quality food and variety of food.

Janet Engel (12:39.586)
Do you think that it's still the case where only high-end senior living communities are looking to hire people with a high skill set like those chefs and people are paying over $5,000 a month to live there compared to other communities that can't afford?

Jeff Weiss (13:03.95)
Yeah, yeah. You know, I think there's like a wide variety of options when it comes to senior living communities, right? And, and, you know, I think there's a lot more options. Firstly, there's there's just kind of a shortage of space, right? And where the big shortage is occurring is these kind of mid level communities, right? So people that have some money, but not a lot. So, you know, to spend five, $6,000 or more a month, you know, you can't can't afford that, right? So

the costs of food become even more important and managing that at the community level. So I think it's difficult, but just, you know, it means you just gotta be more creative, I think as well, in terms of how you address it. again, you think about the model within senior living communities, at least in the for-profit ones, you you wanna get people in there as young as you can and have them stay their tenure as long as you can, right? So the average age now in most senior communities on average, I think is like 85, 86.

So if you can bring that down, think about the amount of revenue, additional revenue you can bring in. kind of, I think right now most, you know, the owners of these communities, a lot of them are, you know, it's private equity, things like, they're looking for the return. And unfortunately, the things, they look at things like food costs as a cost versus an investment. you know, I think that there has to be kind of a reckoning and a balance of how they look at that and how great food and experiences can impact, you know, the overall,

desire to move into that particular residence.

Janet Engel (14:33.342)
Especially when you consider and you mentioned this in your article that most people want to age in place. It's at least 75 % of baby boomers want to age in place. That means you don't want to live in a senior living community. And so they, the senior living community to have that added challenge, well, how do you attract someone to come live there when...

Jeff Weiss (14:44.557)
Yeah.

Janet Engel (14:59.496)
most people want to stay in their homes as long as possible. And then if they're not going to be offering things that people are looking for, like better food, then why would you ever expect your place where we're going to be dying there, know, rent an apartment there.

Jeff Weiss (15:14.414)
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so a couple of thoughts on that. One is I think the biggest challenge that that's the senior living industry as a whole has is just the perceptions that people have about senior living. And part of that, and I've spoken at different conferences, you know, you can have, you know, 500 people at a senior living conference. You ask each of them kind of what does senior living mean? Like a definition, you're going to get 500 or maybe not 500, you're going to get different answers. So, you know, most people, you know, think of senior living is kind of a nursing home, but

Senior living goes all the way from kind of independent, active, independent living, all the way to kind of hospice end of life, right? You more, you know, associated with, you know, kind of assisted living and memory care and things like that. But I think generally people think about senior living as kind of nursing homes, right? And the perception is so bad. And we did a big study a year or two ago and we asked, you know, kind of older adults, kind of, gave them, we've asked them a bunch of things. We gave them a bunch of words.

some positive, some negative around kind of, I think we called it retirement residences. And the vast majority, they use words like old, depressing, dependent. Some use the word jail to describe it. And then we compare that to operators within these senior living communities who, they said, our places are lots of fun. And they gave it a high rating. But meanwhile, individuals looking at it and many of them have visited these places and it's like,

This is not fun and there's this huge gap in perception, right? And I think that's the biggest challenge that these places have and they have to do a lot to kind of change people's perceptions. So that's the first thing. And secondly, aging in place, we ask people kind of what's priorities for them over the next 10 years. And when it comes to kind of senior living communities in general, yeah, they want a place that's kind of safe and comfortable. They've got the amenities.

Jeff Weiss (17:14.722)
That's the easy part, right? It's the other stuff that you need to give people things that they can't get by. I hate the word, first I hate the word, the term aging in place. It's kind of negative when you think about it. We did some research and I might've mentioned this on a previous podcast, you're thriving at home was kind of the phrase that people liked the most, right? Versus aging, meaning you're getting old in place, you're not mobile, you're inactive. know, thriving at home, you have to give people reasons or things that they can't get by living in their own home.

Janet Engel (17:32.992)
Okay.

Jeff Weiss (17:44.718)
that you can get in your community, right? And you think about some of the things that are important and food is one of them. And I know my mother who cooked for almost 90 years and she's like, thank goodness I never have to cook another meal again, right? So there's people like that, so you don't have to cook, but food quality, things like that. But relationships, that's one thing I don't see or hear a lot of in these communities. know, again, using my mother, like she said, the one thing I want when I move in, I wanna have a new best friend.

Right? Because her friends were dying, you know, or, you know, not in good shape. And fortunately, she found her friend Gloria and they're like best. It's like again, university, they're besties. They hang out, you know, she's okay. Time for you to leave, Jeff, you know, Gloria and I, you know, going to see this show or whatever, you know, in the basement come up. So, and purpose and giving people new skills, things like that. Communities really need to strive to offer more than just kind of the basics of living and give people things.

that they can't get by living at home or can't get easily, right? Otherwise, why would you, as you said, why would you leave?

Janet Engel (18:49.834)
And I would also argue, Jeff, activities, whether they're inside the living, the senior living community or outside is a big attractor. know my mom and her husband, they belonged to this senior community where they would go every day and have lunch there. And then it was either once a week or once a month, they had a kind of, you know, outing.

They just loved that and they were doing things that they never did before that they wouldn't try on their own. They wouldn't know how to get to or how to arrange. And so this is where you can give people what they want and make it worthwhile for them to consider selling their home and moving into your community. These are things that they can't, yeah, get at home.

Jeff Weiss (19:42.922)
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I just, I just posted, it's an ad by Dell web, which is one of the biggest kind of senior living communities in the U S I think the ads for me, it's a year or so old, but I just saw the first time and I just posted on my LinkedIn. You can see it there. And it is like, it's, think does a really good job of this couple probably in their sixties and they're going to check out like an open house at one of these communities and just how

their perceptions change once they got in there. People doing yoga, they're having drinks, there's all this stuff going on. And I think that's kind of the perception that the industry needs to change, particularly in these, like when you talk about assisted living, it's kind of different, but in terms of more independent active living. And I know you're probably aware, I've never been there, but you're probably aware of the villages in Florida, right? It's like the largest, it's like own city, it's I think 130,000, give or take.

mainly older adults. And I've got some good friends from here in Massachusetts and went there to visit a relative or someone. And my buddy Terry was dreading it because he had all these perceptions. And he got down there and he was like, this is incredible. Like he loved it. And here's a person I never thought would ever consider that kind of place. And he's like, you know, came into it. I kind of think about that, right? And just, you know, kind of living it and just people don't.

they have these perceptions and until you actually kind of live it and see it, it's tough to get those out of your head.

Janet Engel (21:11.848)
Yeah, and you know, like you said, it's not for everyone, but it's another option that's out there. And going back to what you were saying about these communities attracting residents, I think another challenge that is going to continue to grow is with costs of housing so high, rates.

loan rates being high as well, then it doesn't really make sense for people to sell their home. But yet now we have the HECM, the Home Equity Conversion Mortgage that has become so attractive. It's a great option for people to age in place, thrive in place, whatever you want to call it. It can really fund your retirement, but you have to live in your home.

You can go on vacation for six months and be out of the country, but you still have to own your home in order to qualify for a HECM. And that's, think, going to present an additional challenge for these senior living communities.

Jeff Weiss (22:05.356)
Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Weiss (22:19.758)
Absolutely, absolutely. And you find all the time where, particularly as caregivers and whether it's one or two parents are still alive and it's like, depending on what age and what shape they're in, but you get to the point where you're concerned and worried about your parent kind of living in their own home, right? Or your parents living in your own home. And there's this, it's a real kind of battle. For sure, I didn't have to have it with my mother, but.

It's time to move out, right? And people just don't want to do that. And again, you have to present it in a way. Firstly, they think it's their idea, but presented in a way it's like, it's kind of right for me and or us, right? But it's a challenge. But as you said, there's different options coming up. And if people can live in their own home and be independent and autonomous, then a lot of times that's what they're going to choose.

Janet Engel (23:14.536)
Mm-hmm and the article also suggests that baby boomers want more control over their living environment and as you've said earlier in these senior living communities it's also about the perception that people have and I know that losing control is a common perception that older girls have when it comes to moving to a community

Jeff Weiss (23:36.994)
Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (23:42.572)
Yeah, and as I mentioned before, lot of people, yeah, a lot of people think they're going to lose their independence, their autonomy, and the, you know, kind of, you know, it's a bit of a jail, right? I move in, I'm not going be able to get out, you know, it's like, you know, maybe I'll get a day pass and they'll let me out. But I think that's, know, we know how important that is to people. And again, you know, with my mother, before she decided to move, was like, once my car dies, I think, because car equals autonomy, I can get out and do what I want with my car, right? So interesting.

Janet Engel (23:42.882)
How do you think they can do?

Jeff Weiss (24:12.366)
We've done some research on that to back that up. So people want desperately hang on to their independence and their ability to make their own decisions. And I think that's really important for these communities to address as well. And I think one of the things for the industry is specific to communities is defining what type of community are you? Are you one where it's just active and independent and once you have needs,

other needs, mental, physical needs that come up that we can't address, you've got to move on, right? Or are you our community where, you know, it kind of goes from, yeah, you move in, it's independent, you're autonomous, blah, blah, blah. But you know what, once you start needing help, you can get help. If there's, you know, dementia, memory issue, whatever, we've got that special, you know, place for you, so to speak. And I think, I think really, you know, communities need to kind of define who they are and what they're offering.

and kind of operate accordingly. again, I remember taking my mother around to different places and at the time she was no mental challenges, she still doesn't physically still really good. But I remember sitting down in the first place for lunch and she's facing the people coming in and every second person had a cane or a walker. So for her that was like, whoa, this is really for old people who have challenges. And that wasn't her, that's someone else.

So you can look at it that way, but the other way you look at it is, okay, well, you know, if one day I do have a challenge and I need a cane or a walker, this place is for me as well, right? So it really, it's again about perceptions and what people are looking for and the type of community that it is. Cause you know, if you're, if you're, you know, not necessarily younger, but in many cases younger, so you don't have to those challenges. The last thing you want to do is kind of go into a place where like everyone is old, so to speak, right? And

So you really have to kind of pick and choose the type of community that you want to have, that you want to live in.

Janet Engel (26:12.71)
Yeah, and you brought up another good point with what you said with the car equals independence. And this is another challenge that senior living communities have is because now you have services like Uber and Lyft. Now you no longer have to drive. I can tell you my mom, she has the Uber app on her phone and she knows how to use Uber.

Jeff Weiss (26:33.997)
Yeah.

Janet Engel (26:39.89)
and she is blind from one eye, she can still use her Uber app and call Uber. And she's, I think she's 77. So now you don't have to live in a community in order to have transportation in order to solve that problem because you have.

Jeff Weiss (26:45.107)
Yeah.

Janet Engel (27:01.788)
Uber, Lyft, but then you also have Instacart because that's another big challenge that my patients used to always have is they couldn't get to their doctor's appointments, couldn't get to the grocery store especially. But now that's a problem of the past because we can use technology to solve that problem.

Jeff Weiss (27:21.294)
Absolutely. And, you know, we, you know, when you think about artificial intelligence, AI, we've asked, you know, we've done a bunch of surveys and it's kind of split down the middle for the most part with older adults. Some see it as a real benefit. It's going to make my life, society's life, you know, my life better. Society's going to be better. And you got, you know, there's about, you know, a third 40 % of feel that way. And then there's another third 40 % who's like,

this is gonna be chaos, it's gonna ruin the world. There's a real split. And then you've got about 20 % are kind of undecided, but I think you and I probably look at technology and you look at your mother and it's like, it's great that the technology can help not only your mother, but also whether it's you or if you're a caregiver, all this new technology that's out there that can make your life much easier.

in terms of managing and helping whoever you're caring for. So I think that's gonna change things dramatically in many different ways, whether it be healthcare monitoring, or as you said, transportation, food delivery, home maintenance, things like that. All that from a technology point of view is kind of coming to the forefront and will continue to do so, which I think is gonna be great. And for the communities, they have to adapt to that as well in terms of how can they use and offer technology that people...

people want, right? Because if they don't, they're just going to lose out.

Janet Engel (28:48.246)
That's one less, one more reason to not move in there. Now, Jeff, you mentioned that's research about how older adults feel about technology. Do you have age ranges for the respondents of how they answered whether they liked it or thought it was going to be the worst thing in the world?

Jeff Weiss (28:52.735)
Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (29:08.718)
Jeff Weiss (29:14.478)
We do, I don't have it off the top of my head, but I'm just curious why, I think I know why you asked it, before I kind of expand, why are you asking that? What's your thinking there?

Janet Engel (29:23.276)
So I'm asking that because there is a, think people falsely believe that older adults hate technology and don't know how to use technology. And that may be more true for the generation that is older than the baby boomers, but it's not true for baby boomers.

They've been using technology. They were using technology before they retired. There were computers in the office. So there were smartphones. There was already home technology being introduced. And so it's a misconception that baby boomers do not want to use technology and avoid it.

Jeff Weiss (29:55.704)
Yeah.

Janet Engel (30:14.432)
because it's simply not true. And so I think that's another area. That's why I ask, what are the age ranges? Because as you get more younger people that fall into the older adult range, which we know that we're gonna have, the baby boomers are gonna crest by 2030, they would have all turned 65. Then...

How is that going to, that's no longer going to be an issue like it is today.

Jeff Weiss (30:47.245)
Yeah, no, you're absolutely correct. And it's kind of we've got what we call a dirty dozen myths of aging. And one of them we call what's a Bluetooth, right? And that's this belief that we say active ages, older adults are technologically challenged in a verse. And for some people, sure, you know, as people get older, yeah, you tend to be, you know, kind of more challenged. But the reality is, and a lot of research you've done,

You've got people in their 90s who are much more technologically advanced than people in their 20s or 30s. They just stay on top of it, right? And are using technology. know over 90 % of older adults have kind of mobile smartphones. They're online, they're shopping. They're doing everything online like a lot of other people and spending more money than younger people online as well. So.

Janet Engel (31:34.038)
They're bright.

Jeff Weiss (31:36.078)
And now, yeah, you've got kind of the Gen Xers and I don't like to use generations because I'm the last of the baby boomers at 60. So trying to compare me to someone who's I think 78 or so in their late 70s, we might be very similar and some things are very different, same generations. But as you get younger people coming into the 55 and older spectrum, yeah, these are people that kind of have grown up a lot more using technology. And yeah, are kind of...

Janet Engel (31:50.966)
There, are you done?

Jeff Weiss (32:05.12)
I aren't scared of it as much, right?

Janet Engel (32:08.7)
tell you when I started working as an OT which was in 2009, that's when the jitterbug had just come out. Do you remember that phone, the jitterbug, that big and red? And some of my patients had that and at the time I would call to schedule my appointments. Well halfway into my career, I would say like by 2015,

Jeff Weiss (32:19.084)
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Janet Engel (32:34.504)
I was texting with most of my patients. When I would call them, they wouldn't answer because they were afraid it was spam or I had an area code that they didn't recognize. And so the second thing I would do was I would text them and I would say who I was and I needed to schedule an appointment. And that was the best way to get a hold of them.

Jeff Weiss (32:41.486)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (32:57.1)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's still, you you still whether, you know, you go into restaurants or, you know, whatever out in public and, you know, on their phones texting, not as much as kind of younger, younger people are for the most part, but, you know, still out there and definitely using the technology. But the one thing that does change for older adults when it comes to technology is most in general don't, won't use technologies just for technology sake.

Janet Engel (33:08.354)
Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (33:25.326)
There has to be a practical reason or application to use the technology. Otherwise they're not interested. So for companies, individuals who are kind of targeting older adults, you just have to, same with AI. It's like, that's scary, but kind of if you make it relatable to me of how it's gonna make my life better, hey, that makes sense to me and I'll try it.

Janet Engel (33:45.992)
Yeah, and I think also it has to be user friendly. And you don't have to be a person my mom's age to need something that is user friendly because I can use myself as an example. will not, usually I don't make purchases on my phone because it's so hard to see.

Jeff Weiss (33:50.456)
Mm-hmm.

Janet Engel (34:08.746)
I'll just wait until I'm in front of my computer. And then it's much easier to put in my information. Same thing with LinkedIn. I don't create posts on my phone or respond on my phone because it's just work. It's hard on my eyes. So yeah, making gadgets that are user friendly so that the person that can actually use them comfortably.

Jeff Weiss (34:09.036)
Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (34:21.485)
Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Weiss (34:26.092)
Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree.

Janet Engel (34:38.914)
It's also a big part. So how do you know go ahead you were gonna say something?

Jeff Weiss (34:42.241)
Yeah.

Now, I'm just going to make one point. think a lot of new technology that comes out now, they don't really take into account the needs, particularly of the older users. And I've been involved with and seen so many startups in particular fail just because it's like, I created this because my grandmother, I had an issue with my grandmother and this worked for her. Well, that's a sample of one. And I think companies that don't get

Janet Engel (34:55.276)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Weiss (35:14.038)
design based on the end user really, really are failing. And I see it all the time. And the reality is the more that you can design in general, the more that you can design to meet the needs of an older adult, the better off it's going to meet the needs of everyone else. Right. And I just think a lot of companies don't see that. Right.

Janet Engel (35:27.058)
Exactly.

And I think that they have a very narrow view of the needs, thinking that, well, it's only the very old who are going to need larger writing. That's not true. Vision is the first system that suffers the age-related changes. It starts changing around age For sure, by the time you're age 45, you have presbyopia, which is

Jeff Weiss (35:44.108)
Yeah, no, I'm not.

Jeff Weiss (35:52.696)
Yeah.

Janet Engel (35:59.456)
The reason why I do not create posts on LinkedIn or make purchases, I mean, on my phone, I don't do it on my phone because I have presbyopia. So you don't have to be 80 years old. You just have to be 40.

Jeff Weiss (36:13.474)
Yeah. No.

Janet Engel (36:19.714)
And if they would keep that in mind, then it would really make a lot more sense to make devices that are user friendly for everyone because you're really going to be catering to more than half of your population. Because you can start at age 35, you know, that's when really age-related changes start happening. It's not when you're 75, it's when you're 35.

Jeff Weiss (36:35.63)
Absolutely.

Yep.

Jeff Weiss (36:43.404)
Yeah. No. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Janet Engel (36:49.524)
So what about COVID? How do you think COVID has made a difference on how this is all playing out with the senior living communities?

Jeff Weiss (36:56.406)
Cough

Jeff Weiss (37:03.15)
I think, I can't quantify it, but obviously COVID had an impact, right? With some of the stories that came out of, I'll call it some of the horrors that happened in some of these communities, right? Where it's just people were dying in early days, but it continued on. know my mother's residence where she is, they're still having outbreaks, but people aren't dying anymore for the most part, which is great. So I think it really scared people.

and created an even more negative perception about that. I think again about my mother who was stuck in her room for months on end, And that impacted her physically where she couldn't get out and walk. And because of that, she's got to use a walker. So there was some negative stuff mentally, she was fine. But also look on the other hand, like I said, before she moved in in December of 20...

Janet Engel (37:53.409)
Thank you.

Jeff Weiss (38:01.23)
2019 right before COVID hit. And it's like, thank goodness she did, because I was trying to imagine her if she had been living in her condo on her own in COVID, it would have been quite a challenge to of get her everything that she needed versus being in a community. I think it had a negative impact, but I just, I don't know.

I think just a lot of people are kind of, you know, kind of over that. And it really depends on the type of community that you're gonna be in as well, I think.

Janet Engel (38:40.194)
Yeah, and hopefully something like that never happens again, but that is a problem when you live in a high density area like that. It's not just COVID, but in the winter when we have flu season and that other stomach bug that I've contracted several times from being with my patients, the norovirus, there's always an outbreak.

Jeff Weiss (38:53.922)
Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (38:57.814)
Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (39:06.444)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Janet Engel (39:08.884)
And you can't, it's very hard to control because everyone is going into the dining room to eat. They're using the public bathrooms. They're using the activity rooms.

Jeff Weiss (39:19.95)
Yeah, so I think, you know, I think the communities, a lot of the communities, I can speak for all of them by any means, but some of them now just, you know, they're, some cases they're mandated by the health departments, the local health departments, but others think they now know there's different levels of urgency. And, you know, if the level is high, then yeah, like you can't, you know, either you can't go in the dining room at all, or they limit the number of people, they close certain public, more public areas.

So I think that a lot of communities have kind of adapted accordingly because they need to, because people are going to be asking when they're looking at places, what are you doing, you know, if there's an outbreak of some sort. So I think it's gotten better, but, you know, long-term perceptions and damage that I can't really qualify. I'm not sure.

Janet Engel (40:04.574)
Yeah, but it's really tough when you have to spend a whole week in your room not being able to see other people because that wouldn't be the case if you were living in your house. But I think one solution may be investing in better air filters so that pathogens aren't communicating in or traveling in that space as easily.

Jeff Weiss (40:12.258)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (40:32.994)
Yeah. Yeah. And to that point, there's, you know, when you think about things like air quality, air filters, lighting, things like that, that stuff is becoming a lot more important now as developers are building new communities. And, know, from a cost perspective and energy perspective, all that stuff is becoming much more important as we learn about the importance of some of this stuff as well. So I think, you know, the newer buildings and facilities are really taking that into account.

which again is something that you know what you may not be able to do in your own home, As you know, or it might be very expensive to do versus moving into a place where the air quality is unbelievable. You know, the lighting, because lighting has, I didn't realize this until I started doing this recently, lighting is so important in terms of your mental health as well. Things like that, just how, you know, how things are designed in terms of accessibility. Like it's stuff like that that the communities,

Janet Engel (41:02.466)
Mm-hmm.

Janet Engel (41:09.055)
Right?

Jeff Weiss (41:31.156)
are starting to kind of take more, know, accessibility has always been something, but in terms of air filtration and lighting and things.

Janet Engel (41:36.898)
but making it attractive, yeah, and not where it's for to cater to disability, but actually to cater to health. And you also have antimicrobial finishes, you know, like having quartz counters, for example, then pathogens will not survive on that surface. Sherwin-Williams makes antimicrobial paint.

Jeff Weiss (41:49.676)
Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (41:56.738)
Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (42:01.133)
Yeah.

Janet Engel (42:04.545)
So the pathogens won't survive and you know where you have wall touching then you can eliminate the risk of people contracting different viruses from having those environmental things in place.

Jeff Weiss (42:17.538)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, which is very important, particularly as you get older, and maybe if you've got immunity problems, that stuff is important to you, Safety and security, but safety and that stuff becomes increasingly important. We already know it's important for people in terms of their priorities. So the more that communities can kind of address that, again, the better off they're gonna be.

Janet Engel (42:43.298)
Jeff, looking ahead, what innovations or changes do you foresee in senior living options that will help attract baby boomers to move there?

Jeff Weiss (42:54.35)
I think we'd quite love this question. So I guess I've got three different parts or three different answers. The first is I think we're going to see different types of living conditions that coincide with other events and factors that have taken place. So for example, there's something called the college enrollment cliff that you might be aware of that a lot of just pure demographics, a lot of the, you know, there's thousands over 4,000 colleges, universities across.

the US and a lot of them are not going to be able to attract enough people and financially they're going to be, and we're already starting to see it. Not the big island, these big schools, but a lot of the smaller places and they're not going be able to financially stay afloat. And they've got these great campuses and we're slowly starting to see converting some of the dormitories into kind of more, into residences, multi-generational. I don't want to and see the living communities, but they're bringing people in.

who older people not only can great places stay, a great campus with a lot of amenities there, but a lot of people wanna kind of learn, continue to learn new things. So be able to go to classes and take advantage of all the stuff going on. you that's one example. Another example we're seeing more of is just a lot more shared living space, right? So you think about the Golden Girls, remember that show with Bea Arthur and, right? Right? Yeah. So.

Janet Engel (44:11.808)
watched it every day. I was a child and I watched the Golden Girls.

Jeff Weiss (44:17.934)
So we're starting to see kind of more of that either, you know, someone is, you I think more women than men, they're, you know, they're divorced or they're widowed whatever, and they're lonely and they've got this house and they bring people in not only financially, so they all split the cost, but a lot of people, older people are looking for kind of companionship and relationships. Some are looking for sexual stuff, that's a whole different area, but others are just looking for friends and companions, right?

Janet Engel (44:46.359)
Friendship.

Jeff Weiss (44:48.038)
We're starting to see a lot more of that. There's some, excuse me, services popping up around that. And I think we're gonna start to see more of that. So really kind of different options based on some of the other factors going on. One second.

Janet Engel (45:02.762)
Yes.

Jeff Weiss (45:02.932)
Secondly, think, Greg.

Janet Engel (45:07.426)
Well, I was going to ask you with what you had said earlier about colleges and universities not being able to attract enough students to stay afloat. Is that phenomenon due to that we have fewer younger people and so there are fewer people enrolling in college?

Jeff Weiss (45:23.695)
Yeah, it's pure demographics. Yeah, pure demographics and just kind of the shift in what's happening in the economy. I guess, you know, might be the value of an education now and the cost of an education, right? It's a lot of people can't afford. So I think that's right. And I think, and I mentioned before within communities, just a greater focus are outside of kind of the, think about, you know, I'm not a psych person, although, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

Janet Engel (45:52.374)
Good night.

Jeff Weiss (45:52.822)
really focusing on stuff beyond kind of, I've got a bed to sleep in, a safe place, it's secure, I can get my food there and all that, but then it's just meeting those other needs and then coming down to things that you can't get by, it's harder to get by living on your own or aging in place. So, again, it's like, there's a lot of people, older adults who,

Janet Engel (46:13.758)
Right. Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (46:19.096)
You know, they want to learn new things. So whether that's a new language, they want to travel. But you also have a lot of older adults, I think, who want to start new businesses, right? The most successful entrepreneurs tend to be older. So, you know, I think there's an opportunity in some of these communities to have like more help for people who are starting their businesses, as an example, right? And kind of, you know, relationships and just being in a place that really people aspire to live.

The third thing, and this is my personal thing, because I think it's a huge opportunity, is to create communities of specific interests, similar to golf communities, but different. So we know the growth of pickleball, right? And so I think you start to see kind of more pickleball communities. That's an easy one. But I'm a foodie. I love food. And we've talked a lot about food.

But I would move into a community that is really focused on food where you've got your garden that you're all growing together, you're cooking meals together, you're having celebrity chefs coming in all, like where food is such an important part and you're just, you're sharing that desire and inspiration with other people. It could be like, yeah, I'm learning new things, NASCAR communities, I know in the South, NASCAR is huge, right? So.

Janet Engel (47:26.43)
And learning, you'd be learning the process.

Jeff Weiss (47:36.012)
Why not take some of these golf courses and create like race tracks and things like that or art communities? So I guess for me that, you know, it's really, you know, instead of just having a general senior living community, kind of make it more specific to, to like interest, you know, interest groups so that you get people who, you know, have the same, you know, desires and love of things and same interests to kind of enjoy it together, right? Why not?

Janet Engel (48:00.864)
just watched this Sunday on Sunday morning the piece with Jane Fonda where she talks about how we need to change our perception on aging and make it something positive instead of continuing to perpetuate its negative negativity and research. She talked about this how research shows that engaging in art and

they define art in very loose terms was the activity that was created most purpose and feelings of wellbeing for older people.

Jeff Weiss (48:41.358)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So why not have a community where art is the focus of it, right? Like you've got to have all the other stuff as well. you know, if you love to do art, you know, if you love to play pickleball and I got friends who play like five hours of pickleball a day, I don't know how they do it, then create a community because there's enough people there, you know, to get this and bring in pro like whatever the case may be. Right. And art is another example of that. I just I really haven't seen, you know, kind of

that come out yet. think Disney, I think might be creating a community like that. And that's another example, right? Where, you you've got Disney heads or whatever you call them, people who just love Disney, however old they are. And so create a community where it's all Disney focused for those people who want that.

Janet Engel (49:25.794)
Well, that was great. We had a lot of great suggestions. Someone should hire us to help them.

Jeff Weiss (49:33.56)
No, I think not.

Janet Engel (49:39.274)
Jeff, thank you so much for being with me today and I will include the link to this article in the show notes and anything else I'll include the link to your website and how they can contact you. Anything else that you want me to mention?

Jeff Weiss (49:52.855)
Awesome.

Great. No, just thank you again for having me on. And yeah, it's a really interesting area that's changing both in terms of the communities, but also, I think the things that you're focused on in terms of how do you make your home better for you, kind of as you get older and some of the challenges and just things that are just, hey, that makes sense. Whether I've got a challenge or not, it's just going to make my life easier, better. And I think great opportunities.

in kind of addressing kind of the unmet needs of older people.

Janet Engel (50:28.406)
Yeah, yeah, I liken it to eating healthy. It's about prevention. If you eat healthy, then you're going to feel better and you're going to have fewer problems in the future. And the same thing goes with where you live. Whether you live in a senior living community or in your own home, if your home is safer, if it's more functional, if it's going to help you do your activities of daily living like dressing, bathing, cooking, all of that is going to help you.

age with more quality of life.

Jeff Weiss (51:01.972)
Absolutely. Thanks again for having me on.

Janet Engel (51:03.498)
Well, thank you, Jeff, and happy holidays.

Jeff Weiss (51:07.574)
Yeah, you too. You too.

Janet Engel (51:09.184)
Thank you.