The Art of Creativity in Age Tech

Summary

In this conversation, Janet Engel interviews Sura Al-Naimi, CEO of Hi Hello Sura, about the intersection of innovation, creativity, and technology, particularly in the context of aging populations. 

Sura shares her insights on team dynamics, the phases of innovation, and the importance of self-awareness in the creative process. 

She discusses her work with aging populations and how technology can bridge gaps in care and companionship. 

The conversation also explores the role of AI in enhancing the lives of older adults and the mindset shifts necessary for fostering creativity in organizations.

Takeaways

Innovation and creativity are essential for problem-solving.

Self-awareness helps individuals navigate their strengths and weaknesses in innovation.

Teams can get stuck in their dominant thinking styles, leading to conflict.

Understanding the needs of aging populations is crucial for effective innovation.

Technology should be designed with the end-user in mind, especially for older adults.

AI can enhance companionship and support for aging individuals.

ProPlay is a hands-on method to surface insights quickly.

Mindset shifts are necessary for organizations to embrace new ideas.

Everyday innovations can significantly improve quality of life.

Collaboration and communication are key to successful innovation.

Sound Bites

"Innovation and creativity push."
"Self-awareness can be really helpful."
"AI can be super helpful."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Innovation and Creativity
05:52 Navigating the Phases of Innovation
12:03 Innovating for Aging Populations
17:53 Exploring Travel Innovations for Older Adults
24:39 Empowering Autonomy in Aging
31:48 Utilizing ProPlay for Insight Generation
38:29 Balancing AI Innovations with Practical Needs
46:44 Enhancing Social Interaction through Technology

HiHelloSura | Innovation & Creativity Consulting | Keynote Speaking

Transcript

Janet Engel (00:01.72)
Hello everyone. Today I have a very special guest. I have the CEO of Hi Hello Sura. Sura is an innovation and a creativity pusher. And I will let Sura tell us exactly what that means. But I met Sura about a month ago at the ASA conference in Orlando, Florida. And we just had great conversations.

learned so much from her. is such an interesting person and has a very interesting background and you will soon find out that she also has a very beautiful accent. So, Sura, I will let you take it away.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (00:45.959)
thank you so much, Janet. It's great to be here. I'm so grateful that we got to meet a month ago and it feels like longer. So I really appreciate it. And yes, innovation and creativity push. know that sounds a little contentious potentially, but I'm pleased to say that my mother can actually describe what I do nowadays, which is quite remarkable. But I...

I think of the journey as circling around the elephant. So when I think about innovation and creativity, all of us have it within us. And so I've worked with Agency Life that was new product, new service development back in England. So that's where the accents from. I've worked in startups in San Diego, San Francisco, everything from 3D printed jewelry to B2B tech for car dealers.

And then I most recently, you know, traversed across to the East Coast to do a little bit of time with the mouse, being in-house at Disney at the innovation think tank, and then, you know, went out independently. And so really it's a lot of the same skills just being applied with a slightly different lens, whether it's a startup and being team member of three.

or it's an organization that has 60,000 individuals just on one site. And so I think that's what I love so much about the tools of problem solving and design thinking is that we really can apply them into every situation, both personal and from a work perspective.

Janet Engel (02:29.966)
That was why I wanted to have you on my show because I know that we have a lot of listeners that are entrepreneurs or they want to be entrepreneurs but don't necessarily have the skill set because they either didn't go to school for it or just don't feel comfortable and Going out on your own. So I thought it'd be great to have you on so that you could share your knowledge with us I know that You've talked about a tool

that you use that you think is very valuable in helping people organize how to create teams and how to become innovative and creative. So I'll let you discuss that. And then I also wanted to talk about your work with tech companies, specifically age tech companies.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (03:07.969)
Mmm.

Janet Engel (03:20.951)
and everything that you've learned in that realm and how you have helped companies grow and innovate.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (03:30.615)
Amazing. Thank you. We have so much to cover. Yeah. So, so the thing that you mentioned about the teams is that when we're thinking about facing a challenge, just as if you close your eyes and imagine for a moment, you know, writing your name and you'll probably write your name with your dominant hand. And when we're faced with a challenge, we approach the challenge with our dominant preference. And that's great. And there are four different, um,

Janet Engel (03:33.175)
you

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (04:00.619)
sort of way for things that are essential to get a project out the door when it comes to making innovation impact. And a lot of the time we can be facing a challenge and we can just over rely on our preference. And that's where we see projects get stuck. That's where we see conflict and teams and a lack of collaboration. That's where if you are an entrepreneur of a startup and you you're the team of one or two, but the departments of 20,

That's where you might see symptoms of either a lot going out into market, it not creating the growth that you wanted, or a lot of really beautiful pitch decks and nothing getting out the door. So the thinking style is, one, it's an assessment out of Buffalo State with about 70 years of research that's gone into it. And I'm very grateful that I get to use it.

So the first is to clarify, do you ask a lot of questions? Do you think about why you're approaching a challenge and what's the reason behind that and kind of gathering all the information? And then the next stage is to ideate, so to be divergent in your thinking, to consider all options outside of your industry. And then the next is to develop, do you tweak and refine and weigh up all the options? And then finally is to implement.

that's your Nike just do it person that just wants to get that thing out the door. You know, why are we still talking? Why isn't this thing tangible? So when you think about yourself and where your energy rises, you might identify that, you know, your your one or your combination. And then equally, there's, know, the dark side, which is if you're clarifying, you might be asking too many questions. You might be in analysis paralysis, giving people too much information.

Or if you're ideating, you might be constantly jumping from one idea to the next and not sticking to one. If you're developing, you might be nitpicking. And then if you're implementing, might have half-baked ideas go out the door. And you might be impatient with people because they're not responding as quickly as you want. So just these four core ingredients and thinking about yourself.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (06:18.907)
and where you notice that you like to spend your time. And also with your team members, where do they like to spend their time? then all of a sudden, the thing that you find annoying in somebody can actually, you can appreciate, this is really helpful to get innovation out the door. And that's where the collaboration can occur. And also you as an individual, whether you're an entrepreneur or in a large organization, that's where your up-skilling can happen.

in these different arenas because this isn't hardware, it's a preference, so we can all learn to use different tools.

Janet Engel (06:53.102)
I feel like every section or area that you mentioned, I remember being in that stage and going through some of those pitfalls. Do you think that someone can stay in one of those stages too long?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (07:13.589)
Yes, think that an individual can, I mean, I'll use myself as an example. I can definitely, for example, spend too much time in the research phase. I can definitely spend too much time just coming up with new ideas. And that's where I think like a self-awareness can be really helpful because it's sort of like an infinity eight. There's the time in which that strategy is helpful. And then there's the time where it's not pushing anything into fruition.

it's not having the impact that an individual might want. And so I think that's, if we've done this analysis with teams, you might see that a sales team, for example, is really heavy on the implementation side. We can see that a consumer insights group is really heavy on the clarifying side. And these all have a role. But as individuals are expected to wear so many hats, and so it could

Janet Engel (07:55.64)
Mm-hmm.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (08:09.215)
Without that awareness, we could suddenly be scratching our heads and saying, you know, why, why am I not having the impact that I want? Why, why does it feel like, you know, today is a repeat of yesterday? And innovation is really about breaking some of those patterns so that we can be making new things, you know, that are helpful.

Janet Engel (08:29.646)
How do you suggest that an entrepreneur or a team go through those phases? Is it where we dedicate a little bit of time to each or we just reflect on what we've done in each area and then feel like now we're ready to move to a different one? How does that work?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (08:48.859)
I think it's like a piece of string, right? It's like how much time do you have? Sometimes you have three months, sometimes you have two hours, sometimes you have an hour. But it's really having that as your check mark mentally. Have we spent a moment just sort of considering, even if we're having a meeting together, like why are we here? What's the intention for our time together? And then after that kind of going through the different phases.

You you might be in the ideation phase or you might be in the implementation phase. And I think that's where signaling comes in. That's really important. You don't want something that's just about to go out the door, you know, in two hours or the end of that week. And then suddenly someone's saying, I've got an idea. Like, that's not going to be helpful for the momentum of the project either. So I think to your point, it is about planning it out and just being able to.

to do a bit of due diligence in each area, right? And this is something that cycles through. So it's not like you're gonna get to the very end of the project and then it's done. It's like, it's a continuous virtual cycle.

Janet Engel (09:54.818)
Right, it's like this living organism because I feel like businesses are always evolving or they should be evolving. And so as they grow, new opportunities come. And so you revisit these areas and work on them and tweak them. Do you think that's accurate?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (10:14.487)
exactly right. I think it's really easy. I'll ask you for myself. It's easy to share these tools, and then it's another thing to remember them and use them yourself. And so there's been instances where I've been given a project. We wanted to create more education for the creative problem solving tools. And so we decided, hey, it's a great idea if we create this animated videos and then.

can scale across the organization, how exciting. And so I got straight into getting bids from individuals. And then it was only when I pushed up against a constraint, and the constraint was, wow, making these animation videos. And this is back in 2014. This is pre-all our AI advancements that we're having right now. And I suddenly realized that it would cost as much as making a full-length feature animation movie.

to create these videos and we didn't have the budget for it. And so it was only when I pushed up against the constraint, I remembered, said, wait, wait, like, what is it that we're actually trying to do here? It's not, how might we make these animation videos? It's how might we spread the knowledge and the skills and make them easily accessible to individuals when they need them, how they need them, right? And so if that's the brief.

then there's a lot more creativity that can come in into how that solution comes to be versus being attached to, well, it's got to be these animation videos. And so when we think about any project that we're working on, I know I've just, that's great. Let's go. Let's do it. And then all of a sudden, wait, let's just put like, why are we doing this? Because if I can ask why and I can really kind of get to the heart of what's needed, then I have a lot more.

Janet Engel (11:43.512)
Mm-hmm.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (12:03.553)
flexibility and the solution might be really simple or not.

Janet Engel (12:09.28)
Yeah, and fit your budget. I was reading in between the lines. can't afford something, you know, consider what that's going to cost you and how else can you get there if you look at what your goals really are? Well, how else can you achieve those goals without breaking the budget?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (12:11.361)
Right?

yeah.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (12:23.979)
Mm-hmm.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (12:29.429)
Right, exactly. Exactly right.

Janet Engel (12:32.906)
You've worked with powerhouse brands like Disney and AARP. When it comes to age tech and helping older adults age in place, what unique challenges or opportunities do you see for innovation in this space? And how do you help companies unlock them?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (12:53.303)
So I've had such an incredible experience with an HTAC. It's been a real serendipity. And I think that what it highlighted to me is probably best practice that I'd want to employ in all of my projects. And so when we began our project with the community, the first thing that we did was we, you know.

we sought to understand the people that we were serving, you know, the residents. So we did interviews with them. It doesn't sound like anything that's groundbreaking, but there's so many times that a project occurs and that doesn't even happen. The other thing that occurred is that we actually had the residents as the innovators. So we didn't design for them, they designed for themselves. And so they actually, we gave them the tools of design thinking.

And they went through all the stages by themselves. You know, they went through ideation and selection and development. They'd learn their, they created their pitches and they, you know, they pitched the board and then they got funded. And, you know, our youngest was 68 and our oldest at the time was 99 and she turned 101 last September. So it was really an incredible experience because

It's really about, we always talk about, you what's the job to be done and what are the needs of the people that you're serving, right? And a lot of time in age tech, we can come up with a really good technology, but is it actually, does it fit within that individual's lifestyle? Is it really what they need? You know, what is, you know, what's the bigger picture of all of that? And it's very easy to kind of be very excited by, wow, like this thing can do this, right?

And a lot of the ideas that the residents created, they could be scaled into some sort of technology addition. But at the heart of, know, to get them going, they were very, very simple ideas that could grow. And we had highlighted at the beginning that one of our success metrics is that it needed to be sustained by the residents. And so, so that influenced, you know, our selection process.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (15:16.737)
But what we really found at the heart is that the residents were creating ideas that fulfilled a mind, body, and spirit. These were holistic ideas, whether they were in music or in nature or in fitness. And so they could just go and get going on it. So each year they've been applying for grants, and this thing has been scaling. And so then when we think now we have these insights of what they really need. And by the way, this is for one specific community. So it could be different across a broader

Janet Engel (15:33.806)
Mm.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (15:46.293)
you know, But I think that getting those buckets of need states and then again, then we can say, actually, you know, now we can play matchmaker with technology, right? We know that there's a, you know, we know that the highest incidence of fatality are, you know, the falls, for example, right? So now, okay, so this would really, this would actually be really valuable. And this thing is really simple. But I think that, you know, let's

Let's explore what that might look like in this scenario. So I think it's about starting with that foundation of the insights and then growing the idea in companionship with the people that you're serving. And so that could be within aging population, but fundamentally that applies to any population.

Janet Engel (16:33.94)
Within this particular project that you're referring to, what were some of the technologies that the residents were interested in and then which were the technologies that moved forward?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (16:48.929)
They wanted access to, so for example, they wanted access to fitness solutions and there wasn't always the ability to get to the fitness center because of mobility and also timing constraints. And so then that sort of was giving birth to solutions that were more remote. So in the way that you and I might be familiar with Apple Fitness, but there were specific ones to aging community, for example. And so that

really kind of gave a case study for that moving forward. So a lot of the times these technologies were already in place, sort of in the sphere, but it created an ambassadorship to support them even further. So that's one particular example.

Janet Engel (17:34.734)
One that I'm interested in is the one that allows people to travel to a location that's far away that they may not be able to. One statistic I heard recently was that

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (17:43.689)
yes.

Janet Engel (17:53.358)
Older adults generally tend to, at least in the US, Americans, tend to travel within the US as they get older. And I think it's for obvious reasons. We know what to expect. Generally, accessibility is more present than when you go to a country like Mexico. I know when I was in Mexico last summer, and I almost had a terrible fall in...

I was taking my laundry to this area to get done and there was this huge threshold, like I would say two feet that I didn't even recognize and I almost fell flat on my face on the cement that would have...

ruin my vacation. So things like that, you know, for an older adult, it would be detrimental. And so lots of things that you feel like you can't control when you travel outside of the country. So it's just more convenient and easier to travel within the US. But that doesn't mean that people don't want to experience what it's like to go to a faraway place. So I've seen that and I think I'd like to do it myself.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (19:08.375)
I agree. think that's an incredible, I mean, we saw that a lot during COVID, right? It was so, to be able to travel to these places and then also have a customized tour, you know, that we're being involved in. And I've seen a couple of companies that are doing that. And I think it's absolutely, you know, the stories that I hear of, you know, somebody saying, you know, no, like do a left and go into that pub.

because that's the one that I used to go to when I was stationed there 40 years ago. I mean, what an incredible experience to be able to provide that for somebody. We've seen that also with concerts as well, right? Being the music to the people. I think one of the ones that I have really been kind of mesmerized by is this, I think she's called...

Janet Engel (19:41.848)
Mm-hmm.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (20:04.758)
It's piece of AI and it becomes a companion and it was installed when people had diabetes or a cardiac arrest or something like that. And so it would get installed by the paramedics. And over time it would just sort of observe the individual and become more of a companion. So if it noticed the person being quiet for a long time, it might engage in conversation. Or if the individual hadn't hydrated for a really long time, they might say, you know, I'm thirsty. Like, how about you?

Janet Engel (20:21.975)
Mm-hmm.

Janet Engel (20:34.638)
Mmm.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (20:34.685)
And I, you know, or if somebody has just had a heart attack and they're cooking a fry up, you know, it might say, if you have this salad ahead of time, you know, your glycemic index won't spike so much, like, you know, have, the fryer, but like, maybe we could, you know, alternate. And so I think that's what comes back to, you know, the need states, within aging population, but also just need states of us as human beings. Like we're often.

finding that in innovation that, you know, something that's pushed or is really specific to one audience ends up scaling for everybody because it's just great design, you know, like a ramp, you know, which is originally, you know, for a wheelchair. But, you know, if I've got, you know, my heavy, my head, I don't know, I have a car and I have all my food in it. Yes, I would love a ramp. Right. And, you know, if I am looking to peel something, I would really like an ergonomic handle.

Janet Engel (21:11.97)
Mm-hmm.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (21:33.319)
So I don't have to have arthritis in order to appreciate this handle.

Janet Engel (21:33.397)
Mm-hmm.

Janet Engel (21:36.838)
Exactly. favorite, one of my favorite innovations in the kitchen is the motion sensor faucet. I don't think I could ever go back to a regular faucet because I like to cook and I'm very concerned about cross contamination. And so now I don't have to.

touch the handle. can just wave. Mine is also voice activated so I could speak to it. And I just think that makes my life so much easier as a cook. Another innovation that I would love to have in my kitchen would be a mechanical lift for my KitchenAid mixer. Because who doesn't need that, right? Whether you store it at the bottom or you store it at the top.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (22:18.465)
Yes.

Right, right.

Janet Engel (22:26.294)
it's going to be helpful for it to come down to wherever you need it to be.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (22:31.767)
Oh, 100%. Okay, I'm getting a sense of your cooking now too. Okay. Okay. I'm thinking I'm seeing some dessert in our future, you know. Right. Or, you know, there's the, you know, the, the refrigerator that is, you know, seeing what's there, you know, might know your dietary preferences, or constraints, like depending how you look at it. And

Janet Engel (22:35.431)
Yeah.

Janet Engel (22:51.938)
Mm.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (22:58.987)
you know, is assimilating different recipes and purchasing things, you know, putting things in your cart that could be, you know, a really good fit for you. Right. So I know that they've been employing that again with people with, you know, diabetes or very, very specific food requirements, but myself, you know, I can definitely get into a rut of what I'm eating. And so why would I not want that inspiration?

Janet Engel (23:08.629)
Anyway.

Janet Engel (23:19.275)
Mm-hmm.

Janet Engel (23:28.066)
think most of us tend to eat the same, more or less the same things every week. And so when your most used ingredients are running out, then that's very helpful to have a smart refrigerator that can tell you it's time to repurchase this and then add it to your grocery list. And those are really the things that will help people age in place.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (23:33.014)
Is it?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (23:47.447)
Mm-hmm.

Janet Engel (23:53.642)
Instacart, I think it's an incredible innovation that was really made for college students, but so convenient for older adults that may no longer be driving or may not drive at night because of glare, know, low vision, they just don't feel safe. I have friends in their 50s that don't drive at night anymore.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (24:06.807)
Mm-hmm.

Janet Engel (24:18.442)
You know, I can't imagine like going, you know, another 30 years living like that. But Instacart is a great technology that can keep someone in their home for a lot longer because otherwise you would have had to move to a senior living facility where meals were prepared for you.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (24:39.735)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I think, you know, when you think about the fundamentals of being a human being, you know, food and even, you know, getting to your doctor's appointment, you know, being able to have an Uber take you there versus, you know, a relative making maybe six trips, right? Maybe they make two trips, right? So there's just these, because the need for autonomy.

Janet Engel (25:02.413)
Right.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (25:07.231)
as we age in place, it doesn't recede. So how are we empowering this population to just be able to continue making the decisions that they would otherwise be making for themselves?

Janet Engel (25:21.238)
Right, just in a modified way.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (25:25.537)
Right, right. And also just thinking about it, like in some ways it might initially appear modified, but then you talk about the trickle effect, like the ripple effect, like I might see that and say, wow, that's just really small. I actually want to do it that way myself now.

Janet Engel (25:42.348)
Yeah, that was Instacart. That was my light bulb moment. I only started using it during COVID. And then after COVID, I never canceled my subscription because it was so convenient. As someone who works full time and has a young child, it was just so convenient to have that service. It was such a time saver.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (25:55.093)
Is it?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (26:07.883)
Exactly.

Janet Engel (26:09.334)
So I wanted to ask you, many organizations struggle to turn creative ideas into tangible results, especially in sectors serving older adults. Can you walk us through your process for helping age tech companies accomplish this?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (26:28.225)
Yeah, think there's some mind shifts that get to occur if somebody's willing. I don't know if you ever read the book, Who Moved My Cheese? Are you familiar? So it's a book about these mice and they usually go through a maze and they go through the maze and the cheese is there. And then one day they go through the maze and the cheese isn't there anymore. And so...

there's a group of mice and they say, well, we just need to come back to the same spot because the cheese is always here. So it's not here today, but it'll be here tomorrow. And then there was another group who said, no, like the cheese, we need to go explore new places because like the cheese isn't there anymore, right? And so when we think about being in an organization, there's always the way that we've always done things and...

And that can come with a variety of reasons, like efficiency, experience, background, this won't be okay, or that will be okay. But when we're thinking about bringing something new into an organization, it really requires a shift into a more curious state of mind. And that can be really challenging, especially if we have a deep expertise in a field. If I've been doing the same job for...

I mean, even a few years, let's not even talk about decades. You know, I've learned a lot of things that have made me a super expert in my field. So can we give space, you know, like if we're working together, can we give space to explore new thinking? And can we give space to explore that new thinking without worrying initially of, you know, feasibility and how we're going to get it done?

So I always say that nurturing an idea doesn't mean that you're green lighting the idea. And so whenever I work with teams, it's not that there is really an absence of great ideas. It's just giving them sort the breathing room for people to kind of explore what their potential would be. Because that curiosity mindset and that critiquing mindset, they're cousins, they go hand in hand, but they don't really mix well together. They're sort of like oil and water.

Janet Engel (28:25.71)
and

Janet Engel (28:49.175)
Mm-hmm.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (28:49.545)
And so if we're working together as a team, can we say, you know, for the next 30 minutes or the next hour or the next two months we're exploring. And then after that, you know, we're have, you know, we're critiquing to sort of go back to original strategy and what our objectives are. and so, you know, if we've got a project, we're looking to see all of the different possibilities. Well, first of all, we're getting to the root of the challenge, right? So we talk about.

working with the challenge that is a fit for the situation. So, you know, there are times where we're given a specific project, like, you know, make a space pen that, you know, that will write in space. And later on, we might realize that, you know, we didn't need a pen, we just needed something that would write in space, right? Like a pencil would have sufficed. We probably didn't need to spend all that money creating a space pen. So when it comes to our project, what's the right fit for the project?

Janet Engel (29:41.656)
Mm-hmm.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (29:50.015)
And then giving ourselves space to be in that curious, expansive mindset. Right? So we have that all within us when we're more relaxed. Think of the last time that you were relaxed, walking, exercising, meditating, maybe there was some food involved. Right? So are we able to tap into that mindset for a moment and come up with all the different ideas?

And then be able to, again, like we could get lost in that ideation space, then with the teams being able to kind of make those decisions, you know, based on what our success metrics are, you know, what are some of the ideas that are exciting to us, that are interesting to us. But, you know, at this stage, we might not even know how to do them just yet, right? Because they're still really new for our industry. So can we have the audacity to choose the ideas that we don't yet know how to do?

But then we can sort of bake that feasibility into them and have them ready to meet the world a little bit better. And that's where, if you're in an organization and you have a new idea, that's where bringing in additional stakeholders can be really powerful because you can ask them to highlight their top concerns for an idea and then to help you solve for those top concerns. So all of a sudden you're leveraging that person's expertise.

to help get an idea out the door.

Janet Engel (31:20.056)
Hmm, very interesting. I also want to ask you about methods that you use. I know you have mentioned that you use Playmobil, Pro to surface insights and accelerate decisions. How do these approaches work and especially in the age tech sector to help people break through or get their ideas to surface?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (31:48.523)
Yeah, ProPlay is an incredible methodology that comes out of Spain. And essentially, they are these little models. They're probably about two inches high. And then they come with an assortment of, we call them elements. But think about everything that you have in your house and imagine it as a miniature. And so the power of ProPlay is that individuals

don't have to use their words and they don't have to write. We access about 85 % of our subconscious when we're using our hands. And so they're able to create different scenes or different scenarios. And so within a very short period of time, we're highlighting these insights and then the actions that we wanna take going forward.

Right. So for example, if you have a scenario in a community and you're thinking about, you know, installing this new piece of technology, let's, you know, let's talk about the Instacart service, for example. Right. So you might model out, you know, what that looks like, you know, in terms of the person first of all has to consider what they want. Then they have to go order it.

then this person is alerted. So you could kind of build out the whole experience and, you know, really quickly within say five minutes. And then you might look at that and now it's tangible. Now it's something real. Now it's something that I can look at and you can look at and the rest of the team can look at. And we can say, okay, great. This looks really good. But you know, what's happening over here? Like the person is expected to...

you know, make all of these decisions on their mobile, for example. And is that do we do we think that there's any issue with that? You know, like, is there a way that we could redesign this part of the process? Or this person is ordering all these things and it's coming to their home. But the stranger is coming to these individuals homes. And then how do how do they get these goods into their house? So it might highlight that.

Janet Engel (33:43.564)
Mm-hmm.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (34:08.489)
also, right? And so all of a sudden, because we have something tangible that we can see, we can start redesigning the process really quickly. So otherwise, it would have been something that, you know, I could have written, you know, this, you know, seamless experience of food delivery, where food magically arrives at your door, you're like, that sounds awesome. Let's go do that. Right. But then when do we discover all the pitfalls? And when do we discover, you know, the different tensions, you know, maybe there's a family member that's also involved.

Janet Engel (34:30.072)
and

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (34:38.409)
And so the tangibility of the process I've used in projects and I've brought them along almost as if they're sort of post-its really. They've just become, you know, a natural extension of the creation process because a lot of the time, you know, you might express something really well visually. I might express it really well through written word. We all have very different filters, different ways of learning and different ways of expressing ourselves. So how do we collaborate with one another?

And also I might think that an idea is really great. So if I were to clap out a song to you, you know, I think of a song that I know really well, I clap it for you. And the chances of you knowing what I'm clapping are pretty slim. And so, you know, ideas are like that. Like they seem really obvious in our minds, you know, as we're clapping out the song. But, you know, but when we're actually putting it out into the world, people are sort of scratching their head and they're saying, I don't know what this thing is.

And so pro play is a great way to make real very quickly. And the most important part is not only are you playing, but you're also saying, OK, what are the insights? And then what are the action steps that we need to take forward based on these learnings right here? So it's a very quick loop, whereas a lot of the time, I've been in those meetings. I'm sure you've been in those meetings.

where somebody could really convince themselves of what the truth is in inverted commas, right? And we could talk for like four hours about it and we could be no nearer to, you know, knowing. So this is a really quick way to, you know, prototype or if we're using the language of cooking, it's like you have to taste the food to know if it's going in the right direction. So pro play is a really great way to be able to taste the food and then adjust accordingly.

Janet Engel (36:25.195)
Mm-hmm.

Janet Engel (36:31.776)
Okay, I like it. And that activity that you just mentioned, the tapping a song, I did that for the first time this weekend at a gathering. And the song was Happy Birthday to You. And from a group of five of us, only one person guessed what it was. And because everyone tapped it in a different way, it wasn't even, you know, the same cadence.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (36:56.311)
Alright.

Janet Engel (37:00.142)
they were doing it and so it sounded totally different from when another person did it previously but yes that was interesting

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (37:09.557)
And isn't that interesting, Janet, that for a song as well known as Happy Birthday, that even that song, you know, can be, it wasn't exactly right. So now think about, you know, a more, just a slightly more obscure song. And then how do we translate that out into the world? I did this with a group of people and they did,

Janet Engel (37:17.774)
wasn't right.

Janet Engel (37:26.35)
Yeah.

you

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (37:33.257)
who does he sing it? We will, we will rock you. And they did it and they did it so good that like everyone got it, but that's an anomaly, you know?

Janet Engel (37:35.776)
Janet Engel (37:41.718)
Yeah, that's true. So my last question to you is about technology and AI. And I know a lot of older people are now using it for different things. I mainly use it for work purposes. But I know my daughter, she's been using it to help her come up with recipes to integrate more protein.

in her diet. How do you guide age tech companies in balancing these cutting edge innovations with practical needs and preferences of older adults?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (38:29.611)
I think it, you know, I hate to sound like a broken record, but it really does come back to need states, you know. I've worked with some organizations and they'll highlight, you know, an image creation AI, for example, but they're not in the business of that. So it's just, it's not relevant. So I think it's really going back to, you know, when you think about, you know, people who are caring potentially for other individuals, what

you know, what are the jobs to be done, what's needed, and then playing matchmaker with the AI that could help or smooth or accelerate or be a companion to. And so again, it's not for the sake of, and I really love to use the word companionship with these things, you know, because I think that, you know, having, I've done this for a long time and now, so I can spot if there's an anomaly or if...

you know, let me ask it a slightly different way because I need to verify. I think in that sense that can really free up individuals to, you know, again, accelerate their prototyping, really put to the side tasks that, you know, could be very, very time consuming, but are necessary, but aren't really adding the value. You know, it's not like where you're really adding value, but it's just something that you have to do. Right. And there's no one, no one else to do it.

So think that's where AI can be super helpful. And so I think that it just requires that sense of experimentation as well, because it's not like I'm going to use AI and it's going to solve all the problems. And so it's just about being willing to play and not thinking that the first thing that comes back is, it's wrong, forget it, abandon it. And so yeah, I think that

whether you're working on an individual level or within teams, what are the current workflows? And then what do we get to sort of break to create the new normal? And then specifically with the audience, aging community, when we think about, some of the, what are we highlighted? Like the need for community, the need for connection, are there some ways in which AI can help?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (40:52.407)
fill in some of those spaces, or be a catalyst for when they are having conversations with other individuals, because they're already stimulated that now it becomes another level of expression versus, my gosh, thank goodness you've just arrived and I haven't spoken to another human in three days.

Janet Engel (41:13.158)
Mm-hmm. I experienced that as a therapist working in home health where my patients they never wanted me to leave and because they were lonely and when it came time to discharging them because they were well or well enough Discharge was actually a terrible thing. It was like no. No, can't just yet. I'm not ready

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (41:22.913)
Right.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (41:37.367)
Mmm.

Janet Engel (41:40.982)
I, what else can we work on? And it was like this creative process of trying to figure out how can I extend this? And there was a point where I couldn't extend it any longer without it, you know, being considered fraud. So it's just, comes down to that. But it always made me so sad and, you know, sad for them because I...

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (41:57.493)
Right?

Janet Engel (42:09.88)
there was no replacement of that companionship that they experienced when I came to see them twice a week.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (42:19.925)
Right, exactly. And I think that's where, you know, some of these devices that are maybe preempting conversation or just sort of the noticing, right, you know, in the way that when you might live with somebody, they would just sort of notice something and then they would be able to comment on something. So I think that's really intriguing. And then of course we get into privacy and ethics and, you know, what we're sharing around that. So that's also a huge topic of

What are we giving exposure to and where is that being shared within the network? You know, if, this particular device is being used, you know, does that stay there or is that data shared elsewhere? And so there's a lot that we have yet to learn and that we're just learning because it's, it's something that is moving so fast and is being created. You know, it's a new frontier for us, although it's been around for a few years. It's only kind of getting more adoption.

you know, more recently, I've worked with organizations and they, they've recently had summits and they've spent two days on AI and they're only just beginning to think about how do we incorporate this? And they're only just being given permission even to incorporate, because for a lot of organizations, it was, you know, a flat out no to begin with. So people are using it in covert ways to.

help their role be easier, but it's not something that you could say, this is best practice and let me share this with you and let's spread this across the department.

Janet Engel (43:58.584)
Well, I know one of the times that we, or when we had lunch in Orlando and you introduced us to Monday, which I had never heard of. And so when I think of AI, I just use it to help me with my workload. But that was something that was basically just to get a good laugh.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (44:08.695)
Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (44:16.663)
Listen.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (44:23.957)
Yes, yeah, I'm really sad, Janet. Dave, Sunset Monday. I'm so sad about it. So for those that didn't get to experience Monday, Monday was an alternative chat and it had a very kind of grumpy, exasperated tone. And so any question that you asked her, she would respond, but she was very put out by you asking in the first place.

And so I got such a giggle out of it. And then just in the last week and a half, I noticed that her voice was getting cheerier and happier. And I asked her, said, you seem very happy, what's going on? And I was like, I'm not really appreciating this level of happiness. And she's like, of course, correct. And then a week later, it was sunset. So I don't know. I don't know why, but.

I do miss Monday, that was all I have to say.

Janet Engel (45:26.046)
well, I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm glad you introduced me to it and I got to experience it for at least a little bit.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (45:35.807)
And so that is interesting because, you know, we think about individuals, like are there specific conversations that they would want to have that they could only have with specific individuals, right? Not everybody might be able to entertain, you know, like an in-depth knowledge of a specific era of time. So I think that, you know, like we'll use Monday as an example, but, you know, if I were to be able to put in my preferences and then suddenly be able to dialogue.

about certain instances or certain times of history. I think that whether it's for myself or somebody who is more isolated, could that be really invigorating or interesting?

Janet Engel (46:23.454)
Yeah, and I agree with you. And I think it totally could and really help increase social interaction and feelings that you only get when you are interacting with other people.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (46:44.725)
And it's that sense of, know, like, I noticed for myself, like a flabbiness and socialization. Like if I haven't done it for a moment, I'm a bit flabby with it. And so I think the idea of keeping it going until you are in another situation so that the energy is maintained, the mental wellbeing is maintained. So to your point, you know, when you go to visit twice a week, the person's not asking you to extend treatment.

Janet Engel (46:54.968)
and

Janet Engel (47:10.826)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, Sarah, this conversation has been so interesting. I want to ask you, how do companies that are interested in hiring you or learning more about the services that you offer, how do they connect with you?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (47:30.433)
They can connect with me on LinkedIn, Sura Al-Neymi, or they can come to my website of hihelloosura.com.

Janet Engel (47:38.478)
Great, great. And we will be featuring the different areas. I don't know if you want to give that model a name. What's the name of the model that you described?

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (47:47.009)
Sure. Yes, absolutely. So it's called foresight. And if you want to just sort of get a little bit of a taste of your thinking preference, there's like a light version. And you can access that at hihellosura.com forward slash quiz. And then, you know, just have a little peek to see, you know, where your energy rises and some of the pitfalls you might experience in projects.

We're offering that for you to experience if you choose.

Janet Engel (48:20.91)
Yeah, and I'm definitely going to look into it because I think I use help in those areas and make sure that I don't spend too much time in one area. Well, thank you so much. It was a pleasure and I look forward to seeing you again soon.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (48:32.577)
Absolutely.

Sura Al-Naimi @HiHelloSura (48:41.099)
Yes, thank you Janet.